Originally posted by oxmixmudd
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Police guns down man after he tried to flee.
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"If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostJim, it is more complicated than that. When a person pulls a weapon on an officer, they have very little time to react, not enough time to tell the difference between a BB gun replica and the real thing. In this case, the fellow had a stolen Taser, and had been checked for weapons. He also was not aiming any weapon when shot. So there are good reasons he did not have a reason to shoot
But demanding in every altercation an officer can fully verify what is pointed at them before they defend themselves is also untenable. That is why you dont resist arrest and follow their orders.
But that is also why breaches of trust like what happened with floyd are so heinous and cant be tolerated. And the systemic abuse of black people by the police has destroyed the trust necessary to avoid further tradjedy.
Serious question here, do you think what happened in Floyd's case HAS been tolerated?"If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI tend to agree. But this case is not as clear cut as Floyd or Arbery. And it is instructive the same sort of excuse making was applied to both Floyd and Arbery in this forum. But as ominous as that fact is, for me I have to be a bit more reserved in this case until more facts are available. In this case it is conceivable evidence could emerge that will at least partially excuse the officer."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by JimL View PostSee if you can stop yourself from misrepresenting facts, MM. The police had already frisked the deceased and so knew he didn't have a gun. Certainly you know that by now."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostIt was a bright yellow taser, taken FROM them, and he'd been searched for other weapons already."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNope. indirect sarcastic jab noted. But the truth is I will not doubt the word of a DA based on sources known to be strongly biased racially and politically. The DA is black, so as far as I am concerned the accusations being levied could very easily simply be racist rhetoric which I will treat as such until and unless there is hard evidence to support them.
This is a DA who has video evidence I do not, who produced a still consistent with a kick, and who charged the officer for the act. Characterizing my acceptance of that as some sort of arbitrary "I believe what tickles my ears" smear of my character is the sort of tactic I'd expect from Donald Trump, not a man that is the moral and spiritual leader of a Christian congregation."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThis entire discussion is based on an unreasonable desire that I accept gossip about a DA as truth. And because I won't do that, the ad hom's against me just keep flying.
Think about it. I chose to believe a black DA is not lying unless there is proof that is the case and that is characterized as 'the assumption that the DA here is a paragon of virtue and above reproach"."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostHas anybody posted the video leading up to the incident?
BOTH officers treat him like a human, being very patient, the first officer even trying to make excuses for the guy "you had a long day? You sleepy?......."
The subject can't figure out what County he is in, denies that he operated the motor vehicle at all, he keeps getting out of the vehicle even though the officer very politely directs him to stay in the car...
At about 20 minutes, the officer doing the field sobriety test does a classic "are you injured, can you walk comfortably in your shoes, etc...."
They are in contact with him for nearly half an hour, BOTH treating him properly, no hint whatsoever of racist conduct on their part...
The subject keeps focusing on his new shoes - the officer gives him the option of removing his shoes --- the DUI officer is incredibly patient with the guy, explaining multiple times what he wants.
And, note - it's NOT just 'whether or not the subject can do the test", but how he process multiple instructions and follows them.
The subject admits to be very impaired, but maybe doesn't understand that, because, at the same time, he says he's "good", and argues that he is fit to drive.
Again, at 31 minutes, he still can't figure out where he is. Goes from 1 drink, to 1 and a half drinks.
He repeatedly denies he was in the drive-thru operating a motor vehicle.
At 35 minutes, he finally admits he was in the drive-thru, on the phone with his girlfriend, seeing what she wanted from Wendy's.
At 38 minutes, he's still insisting he is fit to drive - at this point, the officers would be negligent if they allowed him to drive.
At this point, I would arrest him for DUI, ask Wendy's manager if it's OK to leave his car there, and take him to jail for his own safety, and the safety of the general public.
BOTH officers are still being professional, treating him as "any other person" - no racism apparent.
Finally, after 40 minutes, the rest of the story unfolds."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postcan you post that video or a link and time?
Start at 41 minutes in for the action part."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI don't know the legality and the details of this. However my moral intution says that there's something seriously wrong about a man being killed over a DUI stop that he attempts to flee from.
The only argument I will accept as reasonable are arguments about whether or not the cops had credible belief that he could pose them a threat while he was running away. However I don't buy any arguments that say that because it is okay to shoot a violent criminal convict on the run if he refuses arrest, that it is therefore a green light to shoot a guy running away from this arrest.
In my book the cops can chase after him, and if they catch him, fair game, if he's faster than them. Sucks, but they have his face, and can arrest him again at some other juncture."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI think all that you say is true, I'm still not sure I buy that he needed to die in this situation based on what happened. Almost ten times as many people are killed by the police in the US compared to my own country per capita. Something must explain that difference. In this situation in Denmark the police would not have shot that man."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by myth View PostI posed the video earlier, the one I posted was a mash-up of different camera angles based on the action, about 1.5 hours long. This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O2IReqaYqwThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Postox seems to be operating with the mindset that accusations prove guilt and that it is the defendant's responsibility to prove his innocence.
The problem with the still image is that it could reasonably be interpreted as showing any number of innocent actions. There's nothing that obligates us to take the DA at his word. Of course in ox's world that means we're racist because the DA presenting the bad argument happens to be black."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by myth View PostBut the hard evidence exists, and I've put links here to it. You're just unwilling to even look at it."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View PostI posted a video with a clip from Wendy's surveillance camera that shows the context I even gave he time stamp to look at. And folks like Oxmix should be askign htemselves if the DA has the video he got the Still photo from why is he not showing that?...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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