Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Police guns down man after he tried to flee.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    IF and when actual evidence surfaces the alleged kick is not real, I will discuss that. At this point that is what one of the charges directly addresses. And there is no reason at the current time other than conservative and typically racist spin directed at the integrity of a black DA to doubt it.

    I will not comment on an allegation driven by that kind of sourcing until and unless there are resl and verifyable facts to support it.

    You are asking me to believe the DA is flagrantly lying. I will not give place to that without hard evidence.
    But the hard evidence exists, and I've put links here to it. You're just unwilling to even look at it.
    "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      Jim, it is more complicated than that. When a person pulls a weapon on an officer, they have very little time to react, not enough time to tell the difference between a BB gun replica and the real thing. In this case, the fellow had a stolen Taser, and had been checked for weapons. He also was not aiming any weapon when shot. So there are good reasons he did not have a reason to shoot

      But demanding in every altercation an officer can fully verify what is pointed at them before they defend themselves is also untenable. That is why you dont resist arrest and follow their orders.

      But that is also why breaches of trust like what happened with floyd are so heinous and cant be tolerated. And the systemic abuse of black people by the police has destroyed the trust necessary to avoid further tradjedy.
      About the instant he was shot -- have you even watched the video, or ever fired a gun? I'm asking because I've explained this aspect of the shooting multiple times, and it's had no impact on you. So you either can't comprehend what I'm saying, or have failed to try. I'd like to think you're just not trying.

      Serious question here, do you think what happened in Floyd's case HAS been tolerated?
      "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        I tend to agree. But this case is not as clear cut as Floyd or Arbery. And it is instructive the same sort of excuse making was applied to both Floyd and Arbery in this forum. But as ominous as that fact is, for me I have to be a bit more reserved in this case until more facts are available. In this case it is conceivable evidence could emerge that will at least partially excuse the officer.
        I'm sorry, what are you even talking about? What same "excuse"? I've not seen anyone here try to justify what happened to Floyd, and Abrery wasn't even a police shooting. So what are you talking about?
        "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          See if you can stop yourself from misrepresenting facts, MM. The police had already frisked the deceased and so knew he didn't have a gun. Certainly you know that by now.
          Claimed and rebutted already. Read more better.
          "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            It was a bright yellow taser, taken FROM them, and he'd been searched for other weapons already.
            He had not been searched. It was a frisk, which did not allow them to verify a large bulge in his pocket which Brooks told them was money. Try again. If you're like to learn more about frisking versus search, trying searching "Terry frisk" or Terry vs. Ohio is the originating case, I believe.
            "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              Nope. indirect sarcastic jab noted. But the truth is I will not doubt the word of a DA based on sources known to be strongly biased racially and politically. The DA is black, so as far as I am concerned the accusations being levied could very easily simply be racist rhetoric which I will treat as such until and unless there is hard evidence to support them.

              This is a DA who has video evidence I do not, who produced a still consistent with a kick, and who charged the officer for the act. Characterizing my acceptance of that as some sort of arbitrary "I believe what tickles my ears" smear of my character is the sort of tactic I'd expect from Donald Trump, not a man that is the moral and spiritual leader of a Christian congregation.
              Is there some particular reason you won't review the video evidence that does exist for yourself? The video is not racially or politically motivated. The last time I checked, the video recording equipment can't auto-detect based on race and then alter what it's recording because of that.
              "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                This entire discussion is based on an unreasonable desire that I accept gossip about a DA as truth. And because I won't do that, the ad hom's against me just keep flying.

                Think about it. I chose to believe a black DA is not lying unless there is proof that is the case and that is characterized as 'the assumption that the DA here is a paragon of virtue and above reproach".
                Gossip? What in the ever living crap are you talking about? It's a verifiable FACT that the DA is under criminal investigation. It's a FACT that he lost the primary election and there's a run-off election scheduled. These are some of the primary facts I used to argue against the DA, but those are "gossip"? Be real.
                "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Has anybody posted the video leading up to the incident?

                  BOTH officers treat him like a human, being very patient, the first officer even trying to make excuses for the guy "you had a long day? You sleepy?......."

                  The subject can't figure out what County he is in, denies that he operated the motor vehicle at all, he keeps getting out of the vehicle even though the officer very politely directs him to stay in the car...

                  At about 20 minutes, the officer doing the field sobriety test does a classic "are you injured, can you walk comfortably in your shoes, etc...."

                  They are in contact with him for nearly half an hour, BOTH treating him properly, no hint whatsoever of racist conduct on their part...
                  The subject keeps focusing on his new shoes - the officer gives him the option of removing his shoes --- the DUI officer is incredibly patient with the guy, explaining multiple times what he wants.
                  And, note - it's NOT just 'whether or not the subject can do the test", but how he process multiple instructions and follows them.
                  The subject admits to be very impaired, but maybe doesn't understand that, because, at the same time, he says he's "good", and argues that he is fit to drive.
                  Again, at 31 minutes, he still can't figure out where he is. Goes from 1 drink, to 1 and a half drinks.

                  He repeatedly denies he was in the drive-thru operating a motor vehicle.
                  At 35 minutes, he finally admits he was in the drive-thru, on the phone with his girlfriend, seeing what she wanted from Wendy's.
                  At 38 minutes, he's still insisting he is fit to drive - at this point, the officers would be negligent if they allowed him to drive.

                  At this point, I would arrest him for DUI, ask Wendy's manager if it's OK to leave his car there, and take him to jail for his own safety, and the safety of the general public.
                  BOTH officers are still being professional, treating him as "any other person" - no racism apparent.
                  Finally, after 40 minutes, the rest of the story unfolds.
                  I posed the video earlier, the one I posted was a mash-up of different camera angles based on the action, about 1.5 hours long. This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O2IReqaYqw
                  "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    can you post that video or a link and time?
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O2IReqaYqw

                    Start at 41 minutes in for the action part.
                    "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                      I don't know the legality and the details of this. However my moral intution says that there's something seriously wrong about a man being killed over a DUI stop that he attempts to flee from.

                      The only argument I will accept as reasonable are arguments about whether or not the cops had credible belief that he could pose them a threat while he was running away. However I don't buy any arguments that say that because it is okay to shoot a violent criminal convict on the run if he refuses arrest, that it is therefore a green light to shoot a guy running away from this arrest.

                      In my book the cops can chase after him, and if they catch him, fair game, if he's faster than them. Sucks, but they have his face, and can arrest him again at some other juncture.
                      Hi Leonhard, I appreciate a coherent and fair response. Serious question: do you believe Brooks was killed "over a DUI stop that he attempts to flee from"?
                      "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                        I think all that you say is true, I'm still not sure I buy that he needed to die in this situation based on what happened. Almost ten times as many people are killed by the police in the US compared to my own country per capita. Something must explain that difference. In this situation in Denmark the police would not have shot that man.
                        Probably has something to do with a difference in violent crime rates and a much higher incidence of gun ownership. Just guessing.
                        "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by myth View Post
                          I posed the video earlier, the one I posted was a mash-up of different camera angles based on the action, about 1.5 hours long. This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O2IReqaYqw
                          Thanks, I'll look at it in the morning.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            ox seems to be operating with the mindset that accusations prove guilt and that it is the defendant's responsibility to prove his innocence.

                            The problem with the still image is that it could reasonably be interpreted as showing any number of innocent actions. There's nothing that obligates us to take the DA at his word. Of course in ox's world that means we're racist because the DA presenting the bad argument happens to be black.
                            He mostly is, I'm just confused why accusations against the DA mean he must be a noble person of high moral character and the accusations can't possible be true, but all accusations against the officers are accepted uncritically.
                            "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by myth View Post
                              But the hard evidence exists, and I've put links here to it. You're just unwilling to even look at it.
                              I noticed after I posted this that you finally watched the video.
                              "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                                I posted a video with a clip from Wendy's surveillance camera that shows the context I even gave he time stamp to look at. And folks like Oxmix should be askign htemselves if the DA has the video he got the Still photo from why is he not showing that?
                                I think the guy in the Youtube video makes the point that the officer is also reaching across his body for for his microphone (you can see it in his hand later), which makes his body language look more aggressive than it is.
                                ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                137 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                363 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                112 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                197 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                364 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X