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The issue that led to the Right becoming Pro-Life

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  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Leave a newborn outside for 24 hours and see if they survive.
    A fetus is not a newborn infant. The survival of a fetus and the survival of a newborn are 2 different categorys with 2 different definitions as to what is meant by survival. Cut off your toe and leave it outside for 24 hours and it won't survive either.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
      So pro life women, don’t exist?
      I believe by "we" she was refering to pro choice adherents, men or women, Lilpix. She never suggested that you, being a woman, couldn't still be an anti-abortion zealot who wants to foist your opinion on other women. You're still struggling with that reading comprehension problem, I see.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
        A fetus is not a newborn infant. The survival of a fetus and the survival of a newborn are 2 different categorys with 2 different definitions as to what is meant by survival. Cut off your toe and leave it outside for 24 hours and it won't survive either.
        A fetus is a stage of human development that is just as dependent on their mother for survival as an infant is. The fact you try to compare a child to a severed toe says how twisted you are. I lost a baby at 23 weeks. Can you please explain why my dead daughter was any less my child than my three living ones are?
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          I believe by "we" she was refering to pro choice adherents, men or women, Lilpix. She never suggested that you, being a woman, couldn't still be an anti-abortion zealot who wants to foist your opinion on other women. You're still struggling with that reading comprehension problem, I see.
          Reading is hard:

          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
          You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to foist your opinion on to women, and by so doing prevent them from making their own choices about their own bodies.

          That is the difference between pro choice and the more rabid pro life activists. We are prepared for a woman to make a choice. The anti-abortion zealots want to remove all choice.
          The left loves fostering their opinions upon others, they simply don’t like it when their opponents do the same and besides, she had spent lots of her time attacking men and acting as though men can’t have an opinion on abortion. The left is so funny, only their opinions count, no one else’s.
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
            Reading is hard:



            The left loves fostering their opinions upon others, they simply don’t like it when their opponents do the same and besides, she had spent lots of her time attacking men and acting as though men can’t have an opinion on abortion. The left is so funny, only their opinions count, no one else’s.
            She was talking to a man, figure it out!

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            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              A fetus is a stage of human development that is just as dependent on their mother for survival as an infant is. The fact you try to compare a child to a severed toe says how twisted you are. I lost a baby at 23 weeks. Can you please explain why my dead daughter was any less my child than my three living ones are?
              Yes, if you want to put it that way, a fetus is a stage of human development. So is a zygote, an embryo, but they aren't human beings

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                She was talking to a man, figure it out!
                While making it sound as though only men hold to such a position.
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  Yes, if you want to put it that way, a fetus is a stage of human development. So is a zygote, an embryo, but they aren't human beings
                  And the true colors of the pro death movement come out. Ever see what a dead ‘fetus’ looks like Jimmy? Ever have to hold and bury your dead child? I will assure you that she looked every bit like her siblings, with 10 fingers, 10 toes, 2 eyes, etc. The left is truly sick in how they’ll deny the humanity of a mother and father’s dead child.
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    While making it sound as though only men hold to such a position.
                    Only in your mind, Lilpix. I'm sure she is well aware that there are women as well as men who are anti-abortion. You were just being snarky as usual.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                      And the true colors of the pro death movement come out. Ever see what a dead ‘fetus’ looks like Jimmy? Ever have to hold and bury your dead child? I will assure you that she looked every bit like her siblings, with 10 fingers, 10 toes, 2 eyes, etc. The left is truly sick in how they’ll deny the humanity of a mother and father’s dead child.
                      Pathos.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                        You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to foist your opinion on to women, and by so doing prevent them from making their own choices about their own bodies.
                        I am entitled to both hold the opinion, to advocate for it, lecture on it, gather political support on it and lobby for change. We have freedom of speech and freedom of assembly, and we have democratic elections.

                        If you don’t like what I say, or advocate for the opposite you don’t have to listen and you are free to advocate what you believe in.

                        That is the difference between pro choice and the more rabid pro life activists. We are prepared for a woman to make a choice. The anti-abortion zealots want to remove all choice.
                        Yes, through the democratic process, and by advocating for our position.
                        Last edited by Leonhard; 06-17-2020, 12:54 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          So does every cell of the human body, that doesn't make the cells a human being.
                          The cells of the body are not closed off units that simply absorb nutrients and grow. The skin cells are found tightly together with fibrin, your blood exists in a closed off circuit. Contrary to popular belief the mothers blood never enters the baby, in fact the umbilical simply acts as a way for the baby to siphon off resources.

                          In fact it is possible for the fetus to grow in other environments and interesting experiments are being carried out on that. If adequate supplies of nutrients are supplied to the placenta the baby can in grow in other environments.

                          Your toe, in comparison, only truly functions well in your body. Outside of it the toe rapidly loses cohesion and dies. Transplanted to another person will require that person to consume immune suppressants to avoid his own immune system killing it off.

                          Furthermore even from a standpoint of evolution it is clear how the fetus is an integrated being; early in evolutionary history our distant ancestors lay eggs or babies in the water. They’d return to water to lay eggs there. Later two other adaptions occurred, some had the baby in water inside a hard protective shell, others carried the baby to term to a higher maturity in water inside them.

                          In both cases it is a matter of supplying the right environment.

                          Yes, without the which it is just a fertilized egg. I know, I know, you probably consider the newly fertilized egg itself to be a human being. But DNA doesn't make a fetus a human being.

                          At all stages it is a human being and an individual member of our species. Most serious abortionists I know of don’t argue that the baby isn’t human. Some do, but the only serious argument is whether the mothers right to control her body outweighs the baby’s right to live.

                          the fetus ... is not a human being until it is.
                          That’s a truism. And besides the point, I believe it is a human from gestation to birth, and from birth to death.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to foist your opinion on to women, and by so doing prevent them from making their own choices about their own bodies.
                            A version of the argument that the men in Congress should not have a voice in the abortion debate put forth by those who had no problem letting the men in the Supreme Court decide that abortion is legal.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              One, an enemy - the other, a totally innocent being.
                              As are the “collateral damage”.

                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              The enemy of the enemy.
                              The generally accepted process to determine guilt is by due process of law via a trial.

                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Those decisions are made far above my pay grade.
                              You never question authority figures?

                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              How often?
                              More often than it should happen and sometimes the strike hits the completely wrong target and just takes out a few people gathering food or a refuegee convoy, or a wedding party.

                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              And when it doesn't it's a disaster, and innocent human lives are taken.
                              With abortion, the innocent is the TARGET, not an unintended victim.
                              In both instances innocent lives are lost.

                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              You're really flailing here. Perhaps you should withdraw this horrendous "analogy".
                              I agree that killing innocent civilians is a tragedy. However, I do not read of American pastors railing against such acts, or American politicians demanding inquiries into specific incidents and an end to such actions, or American citizens running campaigns or establishing organisations to address those incidents by demanding they are outlawed and the perpetrators duly punished.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                                I am entitled to both hold the opinion, to advocate for it, lecture on it, gather political support on it and lobby for change. We have freedom of speech and freedom of assembly, and we have democratic elections.
                                Of course you are and if you succeed and the law is changed you will have made abortion illegal.

                                However, you will not have stopped abortions taking place. They will continue, illegally, and there will be an increase in women dying along with their unborn children.

                                The wealthy will be able to bribe doctors or go to another country to get their procedure carried out.
                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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