Announcement

Collapse

Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Which came first?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Which came first?

    I was in a discussion with Lee Merrill on another thread, and an exchange ensued about this subject matter. Which is: what came first, the Gospels or the Pauline letters? Both Lee and I have contradictory sources...

    What's the scholarly 'consensus' on the subject? The most prevalent opinion?

  • #2
    The Apostle Paul can be understood to have known about Matthew, Mark and LuKe's gospel accounts.

    1 Corinthians 1:17-18, ". . . When I therefore was thus minded, did I use lightness? or the things that I purpose, do I purpose according to the flesh, that with me there should be yea yea, and nay nay? But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay. . . ." Matthew 5:33-37, James 5:12.

    Colossians 1:23, ". . . If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; . ." Mark 16:15.

    1 Timothy 1:17, ". . . For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward. . . ." Luke 10:7.
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Seeker View Post
      I was in a discussion with Lee Merrill on another thread, and an exchange ensued about this subject matter. Which is: what came first, the Gospels or the Pauline letters? Both Lee and I have contradictory sources...

      What's the scholarly 'consensus' on the subject? The most prevalent opinion?
      Paul's authentic letters are the earliest writings we have. These are dated to the 50s CE.
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        Paul's authentic letters are the earliest writings we have. These are dated to the 50s CE.
        Fair enough, but what about the quotes shown in this post?

        http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post749262

        Comment


        • #5
          double post
          Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 06-24-2020, 09:43 AM.
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Seeker View Post
            Fair enough, but what about the quotes shown in this post?

            http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post749262

            Source: Got Question"There are scholars who believe the Gospel of Matthew was written as early as ten to twelve years after the death of Christ. Those who hold to this earlier dating of Matthew believe he first wrote his Gospel in Aramaic, and then it was later translated into Greek. One of the evidences of this earlier dating of Matthew’s Gospel is that early church leaders such as Irenaeus, Origen, and Eusebius recorded that Matthew first wrote his Gospel for Jewish believers while he was still in Israel. In fact Eusebius (a bishop of Caesarea and known as the father of church history) reported that Matthew wrote his Gospel before he left Israel to preach in other lands, which Eusebius says happened about 12 years after the death of Christ. Some scholars believe that this would place the writing of Matthew as early as A.D. 40-45 and as late as A.D. 55."[/quote]

            What evidence is the author citing in support of his/her contentions? People may "believe" that the Gospel of Matthew was "written as early as ten to twelve years after the death of Christ" but on what evidence?[/QUOTE]

            N.B. Irenaeus and Origen are second century, into the early third century, and Eusebius of Caesarea is fourth century.
            Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 06-24-2020, 09:44 AM.
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment

            Related Threads

            Collapse

            Topics Statistics Last Post
            Started by whag, Yesterday, 03:01 PM
            14 responses
            42 views
            0 likes
            Last Post tabibito  
            Started by whag, 03-17-2024, 04:55 PM
            21 responses
            129 views
            0 likes
            Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
            Started by whag, 03-14-2024, 06:04 PM
            78 responses
            411 views
            0 likes
            Last Post tabibito  
            Started by whag, 03-13-2024, 12:06 PM
            45 responses
            303 views
            1 like
            Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
            Working...
            X