Trump's Oklahoma Rally

[Cow Poke]

Believe me......

[KingsGambit]

I don't doubt that "low level" mail in ballot fraud happens more often than reported. It's true that there have been very few actual prosecutions, but instances where somebody who has an adult kid living at home, checks the mail, and fills out their ballot without their knowledge probably won't get caught or prosecuted. (Anecdotally, I also know of somebody in another country who had a conservative father who tried to pressure their liberal offspring into letting him fill out their ballot for him, and the pressure was real as he did end up kicking the kid out later on for being gay.)
At the same time, we can't overlook the notion that we are in a pandemic so I think the best solution is to allow mail in voting to be opt-in instead of universal; that way anybody who requests such a ballot knows what the risks are. I'd really rather not send elderly people into possible disease vectors if there is any possible alternative. (Another possibility could be to allow mail in voting if one states a justification such as having difficulty getting off work, or being over a certain age, or being medically vulnerable, and for ). I'd just as soon not have this be a reason to make voting more difficult.

[Thoughtful Monk]

I did not watch outside of observing how pitifully small the crowd was. Apparently there was a concerted effort to request tickets with no intention of attending. I'd be lying if I didn't say I find that hee-larious.

Obviously I'm not the target audience so that's all I've got.

I won't be surprised if there is a similar effort to request tickets with no intention of showing when Biden holds his first arena/stadium rally. Just normal politics at work.

[mikewhitney]

When people reserve space or order tickets, they should give a credit card so that they will be charged only if the don't show up.

[Cow Poke]

When people reserve space or order tickets, they should give a credit card so that they will be charged only if the don't show up.

George Soros would cover those losses.

[mikewhitney]

Believe me if it were possible to get away with false mail in ballots it would be republicans who would be trying to get away with it. The only reason they don't like the idea is because 1) they know they couldn't get away with it. and 2) they know they can't win if everyone is able to vote. Paul Weyrich "I don't want everyone to vote, the more people vote the less chance republicans win". Basically, you conservative republicans just don't believe in democracy which is evident by the corrupt wannabe dictator you continue to support.

How come it is California, a Democratic dictatorship, that is sending out mail-in ballots to everyone? I can't believe you ascribe the fraud to Republicans. The question is not whether you, as a Democrat, would do the fraud. However, the Democratic dictatorship supports fraud. The first step in California was to allow ballot harvesting. This is just like the Dad filling out the ballots for everyone in the household.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I won't be surprised if there is a similar effort to request tickets with no intention of showing when Biden holds his first arena/stadium rally. Just normal politics at work.

I read this recently. Trump's campaign also collects data from those who register/apply to attend his rallies. Shortly before the Tulsa rally Parscale tweeted "Biggest data haul and rally signup of all time by 10x". Applicants were asked to provide their phone number, full name, email address, and zip code and were also urged to supply contact details for family and friends as well. Of course data such as these are of enormous assistance for the up and coming election. However, given that so much of what was received was fake, perhaps on that occasion, not quite as useful.

According to experts "cleaning" the data might be difficult, particularly, as, according to some reports, genuine attendees were waved in without any checks, thus ensuring there could be clear way to identify who actually turned up. It therefore seems that using the data for mailing lists will be a waste of time and money and may see the campaign blacklisted by email providers as spam. Likewise micro-targeting will be useless.

Even more serious is that the organisers failed to include a check-box declaring that the applicant was over 18. With an $18,000 fine for collecting the data of a minor -i.e. $18,000 for every such individual - the information could not only be useless, but very expensive indeed.

[Source Private Eye. No.1525]

[JimL]

How come it is California, a Democratic dictatorship, that is sending out mail-in ballots to everyone? I can't believe you ascribe the fraud to Republicans. The question is not whether you, as a Democrat, would do the fraud. However, the Democratic dictatorship supports fraud. The first step in California was to allow ballot harvesting. This is just like the Dad filling out the ballots for everyone in the household.

The Republicans aren't really concerned about fraud when it comes to mail-in ballots, the fraud they are concerned about with a mail in ballot system is their own wherein they will no longer be able to fraudulently suppress the vote by closing hundreds of polling places in mostly democrat districts, making people wait in lines for hours on end in order to vote. They want to make it as difficult as possible for people to vote in those districts that generally vote democrat. They win, and they know the win, by voter suppression tactics of many kinds and mail in ballots would put a stop to some of those tactics.
In other words it's their own fraudulent tactics that they are afraid will be undemined if the democratic process of voting is made simpler and fairer for all.

[Whateverman]

I read this recently. Trump's campaign also collects data from those who register/apply to attend his rallies. Shortly before the Tulsa rally Parscale tweeted "Biggest data haul and rally signup of all time by 10x". Applicants were asked to provide their phone number, full name, email address, and zip code and were also urged to supply contact details for family and friends as well. Of course data such as these are of enormous assistance for the up and coming election. However, given that so much of what was received was fake, perhaps on that occasion, not quite as useful.

According to experts "cleaning" the data might be difficult, particularly, as, according to some reports, genuine attendees were waved in without any checks, thus ensuring there could be clear way to identify who actually turned up. It therefore seems that using the data for mailing lists will be a waste of time and money and may see the campaign blacklisted by email providers as spam. Likewise micro-targeting will be useless.

Even more serious is that the organisers failed to include a check-box declaring that the applicant was over 18. With an $18,000 fine for collecting the data of a minor -i.e. $18,000 for every such individual - the information could not only be useless, but very expensive indeed.

[Source Private Eye. No.1525]

While I would love to see this happen, I admit I'm skeptical that it ever would.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

While I would love to see this happen, I admit I'm skeptical that it ever would.

You are probably right. I am sure the lawyers would intervene to prevent it.

[Whateverman]

You are probably right. I am sure the lawyers would intervene to prevent it.

That's exactly what I'm thinking, yes. They'd argue that they couldn't protect themselves from people lying online, or that a checkbox on a web page isn't a reliable indicator of someone's age, etc.

Still, it would be immensely satisfying ;)

[Reepicheep]

It has now been just over two weeks since Trump's Tulsa rally. As expected, the number of covid cases in Tulsa is spiking.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/us/tu...rnd/index.html

[Cow Poke]

It has now been just over two weeks since Trump's Tulsa rally. As expected, the number of covid cases in Tulsa is spiking.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/us/tu...rnd/index.html

And, obviously, that's the one and only reason.

[JimL]

And, obviously, that's the one and only reason.

Not necessarily, but there's a good chance the rally had a lot to do with it since in the previous 2 weeks there was a 20% decline in cases. In other words the spike in Covid cases correlates with the Trump rally being the cause. Perhaps something else occured that could explain the cause of the spike such as an ill advised opening up of the OK. economy. I don't know, but unless you know of another such reason, then there is good reason to believe that the rally was the main cause.

[mikewhitney]

Not necessarily, but there's a good chance the rally had a lot to do with it since in the previous 2 weeks there was a 20% decline in cases. In other words the spike in Covid cases correlates with the Trump rally being the cause. Perhaps something else occured that could explain the cause of the spike such as an ill advised opening up of the OK. economy. I don't know, but unless you know of another such reason, then there is good reason to believe that the rally was the main cause.

How did the rate of testing change during the month before and the month after? The count of cases is meaningless unless, perhaps, if done in a manner that tests a group at one time with no positive cases and then tests a certain time later to find how many of these people became positive. The worse issue is that positive covid cases does not mean that people are sick or are dying. You have to check the Dallas County data that we examined in another (or maybe this) thread. No systematic changes in the number of deaths per day occurred either during the time of quarantine, the end of quarantine, the holidays, and the time that masks started to be worn.