The real reason mobs across the country are tearing down American monuments

[Starlight]

None of my marxist friends, who are avowed marxists, would call for violent revolution. At best they're anarchists who want to form small social communes, and change society from within it. Basically.

Well, historically there have been two very, very different branches of Marxism. In the West, Democratic socialism, which stuck to Marx's ideas more closely, pursued non-violence political strategies, democracy, and human rights. And in the developing world, Bolshevism / Communism, which created their own system inspired by an extremely creative reading of a subgroup of Marx's works, and pursued authoritarianism, dictatorship, one-party rule, and state-run economies. At times these groups have actually fought each other militarily (e.g. George Orwell recounts how he fought for the Democratic Socialists against the Communists during the Spanish Civil War).

Most Americans seem vastly more familiar with the latter than the former. The conservatives on this forum seem inclined toward willful ignorance when it comes to learning the difference, and prefer to pretend the two are identical. So when Democratic Socialist Bernie Sanders wants everyone to have healthcare, what they choose to hear is that he wants to be a violent communist dictator.

[Leonhard]

I don't think it's an American phenomenon because social media connects this movement across the western world. If you're anti-war, you will now be dubbed a Russian asset by the left.

That is not my impression at all. And I am a leftist.

And I'm talking about "cancel culture." You say anything deemed as "hate speech" you will get attacked (sometimes physically), ostracized, fired, or cancelled.

I suggest you listen to Contrapoints great video on that, it sums up pretty much all my feelings on the subject.

[Leonhard]

I also read Che Guevara's Motorcycle Diaries,

So a dictator and a revolutionary freedom fighter are your impressions of Marxism? I was thinking more of the huge schools of literary analysis, or the deep impacts it made on sociology, or on philosophy of history.

[Maranatha]

So a dictator and a revolutionary freedom fighter are your impressions of Marxism? I was thinking more of the huge schools of literary analysis, or the deep impacts it made on sociology, or on philosophy of history.

If you haven't noticed, Marxism in practice will burn down your library, and all its glorious literary analysis.

[Leonhard]

If you haven't noticed, Marxism in practice will burn down your library, and all its glorious literary analysis.

Marxism, at least the way Karl Marx understood it, has never been put into practice. The term 'Marxism' in general is completely empty unless you specify what you mean.

[Starlight]

If you haven't noticed, Marxism in practice will burn down your library, and all its glorious literary analysis.

That's a bit like saying that Democracy in practice will elect bowel movements like Trump, therefore Democracy is bad.

Marxism in Western Europe has a long history of intellectualism. Certainly vastly more has been written by marxist scholars and scholars influenced by marxism, than burned.

[Maranatha]

Marxism, at least the way Karl Marx understood it, has never been put into practice. The term 'Marxism' in general is completely empty unless you specify what you mean.

I will "specify" those in the current movements throughout the US, and their feeble attempts at practicing their version of Marxism.

I do not discern the one true marxists, that is your job apparently. I observe self avowed marxists in motion, like in seattle. I also don't need to wait around for the pure Marxist implementation to know it is rubbish.

[Maranatha]

That's a bit like saying that Democracy in practice will elect bowel movements like Trump, therefore Democracy is bad.

Marxism in Western Europe has a long history of intellectualism. Certainly vastly more has been written by marxist scholars and scholars influenced by marxism, than burned.

You mean representative republic's can elect people you hate.

Sure, that can happen. It's kinda supposed to happen, actually.

[Leonhard]

I will "specify" those in the current movements throughout the US, and their feeble attempts at practicing their version of Marxism. I do not discern the one true marxists, that is your job apparently.

Actually since there's no "one true marxist", it makes absolutely no sense to talk about Marxism unless you specify it. Who are "those" that you're talking about. They're not communist infiltrators from Cuba or the Soviet Union, they also aren't monsters from the fifth dimension. They're just protestors following ideologies you don't agree with, namely an analysis of the world that acknowledges the power struggle that exists between existing groups.

[seanD]

That is not my impression at all. And I am a leftist.



I suggest you listen to Contrapoints great video on that, it sums up pretty much all my feelings on the subject.

Well seer did point out you live in a country that isn't as multicultural as other western countries, let alone the US. Multicultural issues probably isn't on your radar as much, nor any issues that are related to that. As far as "cancel culture," I'm very well versed in how it works and how it's been manifesting itself in our culture. This and the anti-war stance is the complete opposite of what this leftist movement represented in the 60s, but much of it is the same today.

[seer]

Actually since there's no "one true marxist", it makes absolutely no sense to talk about Marxism unless you specify it. Who are "those" that you're talking about. They're not communist infiltrators from Cuba or the Soviet Union, they also aren't monsters from the fifth dimension. They're just protestors following ideologies you don't agree with, namely an analysis of the world that acknowledges the power struggle that exists between existing groups.

Perhaps they are Marxists in the mold of Stalin or Mao.

[Leonhard]

Perhaps they are Marxists in the mold of Stalin or Mao.

Seer, you're not good at trolling, it's just a sad sight to see you do it.

[Leonhard]

Well seer did point out you live in a country that isn't as multicultural as other western countries, let alone the US. Multicultural issues probably isn't on your radar as much, nor any issues that are related to that. As far as "cancel culture," I'm very well versed in how it works and how it's been manifesting itself in our culture. This and the anti-war stance is the complete opposite of what this leftist movement represented in the 60s, but much of it is the same today.

I also talk to liberals online, I don't have the impression you have of them. Which ones have you been talking to. The liberal friends I have are glad that the US is involved less in war. One of the big criticisms made of Obama and Hillary by them was that one of them didn't do enough to pull the US out of wars it had no business being in, and the other one had intentions of keeping that up. Cancel culture is a rather problematic affair, especially among my feminist friends.

That you think liberals are almost exclusively in support of cancel culture makes me suspicious about your actual contact with actual liberals.

[seer]

Seer, you're not good at trolling, it's just a sad sight to see you do it.

What do you take exception to? Since the founders of BLM claim to be Marxists one wonders what kind of Marxists. And since violence and property damage and the destruction of monuments that represent Western values seem to follow them where ever they go I suspect that they are more like Lenin.

[Leonhard]

What do you take exception to? Since the founders of BLM claim to be Marxists one wonders what kind of Marxists. And since violence and property damage and the destruction of monuments that represent Western values seem to follow them where ever they go I suspect that they are more like Lenin.

Then you go with that fantasy of yours. I fully affirm your right to live in your reality.