How much of this is Trump's fault?

[JimL]

MM is not one to ever admit or acknowledge he was dead wrong, even when the opinions and misinformation he embraces has been the cause of hundreds of thousands of deaths. And CP is functionally his cheerleader. He pretends not to necessarily agree with him, but always encourages him in his proclamations of misinformation.

Exactly, that's CP's MO. He pretends to be neutral while continuing to excuse and defend one side while disparaging the other. He thinks people can't see through that.

[Cow Poke]

Exactly, that's CP's MO.

Oh, here we go again....

He pretends to be neutral

False - I'm conservative. I have a bias. NEVER said I was neutral.

while continuing to excuse and defend one side while disparaging the other. He thinks people can't see through that.

I can certainly see you repeatedly saying stupid untrue stuff.

[Mountain Man]

Prediction from MM, it's just a like the flu.

I never made that prediction.

Reality so far, over 128,000 (more than twice a severe flu season) and it's far from over.

Is that reality? I know there has been a lot of padding of the numbers from hospitals who get extra funding for every China flu death they report, and there has been a lot of conflation of "died from the Wuhan virus" and "died with the Wuhan virus". Even if they simply appear to have had China flu-like symptoms, then doctors are encouraged to write that down as the cause of death even if ti's never actually confirmed because they don't want to waste test kits on the dead.

But even if that is reality, that is far, far below predictions, and it's only as high as it is because Democrat controlled states like New York and New Jersey botched their response and account for nearly 50% of all deaths attributed to the China flu in the US. We were supposed to have a million dead so far with tens of millions infected and suffering, our hospitals were supposed to have been overrun, we were supposed to be looking at severe ventilator shortages even with ramped up production. It hasn't happened. Not even close. Instead, hospitals are sitting mostly empty, nurses and doctors have been laid off, ambulance drivers and EMTs are twiddling their thumbs due to lack of work, emergency field hospitals set up by our military at great cost have been dismantled, in some cases without seeing a single patient, we have more ventilators than we know what to with.

I think the US is doing pretty well, all things considered. We just need to let people go back to work so that the economic recovery can begin.

[Mountain Man]

Here is what MM said:

Is the coronavirus really any worse than the common flu?

Right, it was a question, not a prediction, a question I asked in late February before we had a lot of information.

[Whateverman]

Here is what MM said:

Did you know that the gal from the CDC who waited until Trump was out of the country to attempt to induce panic by screaming, "We're all going to die!" is Rod Rosenstein's sister?

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...steins-sister/

Is the coronavirus really any worse than the common flu?

Right, it was a question

... after a linked article from a right-wing media source, saying the CDC was hysterical, and that the pandemic panic came from someone who is closely tied to people who tried to take down Trump.

You don't have to be honest with me, or even the rest of us here - but at least be honest with yourself: you weren't asking a question.

You were calling the severity of the pandemic into question.

[Darth Executor]

It's everybody's fault. Americans have 0 social cohesion.

[Charles]

... after a linked article from a right-wing media source, saying the CDC was hysterical, and that the pandemic panic came from someone who is closely tied to people who tried to take down Trump.

You don't have to be honest with me, or even the rest of us here - but at least be honest with yourself: you weren't asking a question.

You were calling the severity of the pandemic into question.

Exactly right:

[...]By all accounts, this is shaping up to be another worldwide panic that's not living up to the hype.

[Mountain Man]

... after a linked article from a right-wing media source, saying the CDC was hysterical, and that the pandemic panic came from someone who is closely tied to people who tried to take down Trump.

You don't have to be honest with me, or even the rest of us here - but at least be honest with yourself: you weren't asking a question.

You were calling the severity of the pandemic into question.

Nope. I was asking a question, and I should know because I was the one who asked it. Your mind reading act needs some work before you take it on the road.

[Mountain Man]

Exactly right:

By all accounts, this is shaping up to be another worldwide panic that's not living up to the hype.

You can't say I didn't hit that nail solidly on the head.

Models and predictions were far in excess of what we've actually seen. Fearmongers were telling us that worldwide deaths would be in the millions, and infections in the billions. We're nowhere close.

So worse than the flu? It seems the answer is yes. Significantly worse? It seems the answer is no.

[Whateverman]

Models and predictions were far in excess of what we've actually seen.

The virus is currently surging in the US.

You sure now's a good time to conclude that you were right?

[Mountain Man]

The virus is currently surging in the US.

You sure now's a good time to conclude that you were right?

I would be shocked if the early models and predictions turn out to be correct. Yes, you have my permission to bring this post to my attention in the future if it happens.

[Whateverman]

I would be shocked if the early models/predictions and predictions turn out to be correct. Yes, you have my permission to bring this post to my attention in the future if it happens.

Provide us with links to two of the models/predictions you're referring to, because I guarantee neither of them say what you want them to.

[Mountain Man]

Provide us with links to two of the models/predictions you're referring to, because I guarantee neither of them say what you want them to.

I'm not sure that's a guarantee you can deliver.

In mid-March, a British scientist released an official report through the Imperial College that predicted nearly 3-million China flu deaths in the US and UK alone. Around the same time, the CDC was predicting up to 1.7 million deaths in the US. In mid-March, an "immunization specialist" was telling NBC News that we could see millions of China flu deaths in the US.

Here's NewBusters' own rundown of the fearmongering in the media as they harped on the "Millions dead! Tens of millions infected!" narrative.

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb...-americans-die

Remember, the current death total includes people who simply had the virus when they died even if it didn't cause their death, so even the current 100,000+ US deaths attributed to the China flu is not completely accurate.

[Whateverman]

I would be shocked if the early models and predictions turn out to be correct. Yes, you have my permission to bring this post to my attention in the future if it happens.

Provide us with links to two of the models/predictions you're referring to, because I guarantee neither of them say what you want them to.

I'm not sure that's a guarantee you can deliver.

In mid-March, a British scientist released an official report through the Imperial College that predicted nearly 3-million China flu deaths in the US and UK alone.

If no measures were taken to mitigate spread and treat the infected.

Unfortunately for you, measures were taken to mitigate the spread, and while treatments/therapies are currently minimal, measures were taken to provide them as well.

aka. the prediction of "3-million China flu deaths in the US and UK alone" doesn't apply, because that prediction was based on a total lack of government/social/medical policy.

Source: a right-wing dead-horse of a report

In the (unlikely) absence of any control measures or spontaneous changes in individual behaviour, wewould expect a peak in mortality (daily deaths) to occur after approximately 3 months (Figure 1A). Insuch scenarios, given an estimated R0 of 2.4, we predict 81% of the GB and US populations would beinfected over the course of the epidemic.

© Copyright Original Source

Control measures and spontanteous changes in individual behavior were implemented.

Oops.

ps. thanks for the other links, but it's already clear that you're claiming the predictions were bad based on a scenario which never came to pass. The only way to test for whether 3.1 million US/UK citizens would have died is if we'd just let the virus run rampant.

You did exactly what I'd guessed: complained about the fallibility of predictions/models that we haven't actually tested yet.

[Mountain Man]

If no measures were taken to mitigate spread and treat the infected.

Unfortunately for you, measures were taken to mitigate the spread, and while treatments/therapies are currently minimal, measures were taken to provide them as well.

aka. the prediction of "3-million China flu deaths in the US and UK alone" doesn't apply, because that prediction was based on a total lack of government/social/medical policy.

Source: a right-wing dead-horse of a report

In the (unlikely) absence of any control measures or spontaneous changes in individual behaviour, wewould expect a peak in mortality (daily deaths) to occur after approximately 3 months (Figure 1A). Insuch scenarios, given an estimated R0 of 2.4, we predict 81% of the GB and US populations would beinfected over the course of the epidemic.

© Copyright Original Source

Control measures and spontanteous changes in individual behavior were implemented.

Oops.

ps. thanks for the other links, but it's already clear that you're claiming the predictions were bad based on a scenario which never came to pass. The only way to test for whether 3.1 million US/UK citizens would have died is if we'd just let the virus run rampant

So what you're saying is that the models and predictions were far in excess of what we've actually seen, yes?