How much of this is Trump's fault?

[Cow Poke]

I never made that prediction.


Is that reality? I know there has been a lot of padding of the numbers from hospitals who get extra funding for every China flu death they report, and there has been a lot of conflation of "died from the Wuhan virus" and "died with the Wuhan virus". Even if they simply appear to have had China flu-like symptoms, then doctors are encouraged to write that down as the cause of death even if ti's never actually confirmed because they don't want to waste test kits on the dead.

But even if that is reality, that is far, far below predictions, and it's only as high as it is because Democrat controlled states like New York and New Jersey botched their response and account for nearly 50% of all deaths attributed to the China flu in the US. We were supposed to have a million dead so far with tens of millions infected and suffering, our hospitals were supposed to have been overrun, we were supposed to be looking at severe ventilator shortages even with ramped up production. It hasn't happened. Not even close. Instead, hospitals are sitting mostly empty, nurses and doctors have been laid off, ambulance drivers and EMTs are twiddling their thumbs due to lack of work, emergency field hospitals set up by our military at great cost have been dismantled, in some cases without seeing a single patient, we have more ventilators than we know what to with.

I think the US is doing pretty well, all things considered. We just need to let people go back to work so that the economic recovery can begin.

Which is why I mentioned "actual numbers", and the leftists went on a tirade.

[Whateverman]

So what you're saying is that the models and predictions were far in excess of what we've actually seen, yes?

No, that's what you're saying.

And you're wrong.

What were the predictions/models that included mitigation factors being implemented?

[Mountain Man]

No, that's what you're saying.

And you're wrong.

What were the predictions/models that included mitigation factors being implemented?

Ah, so you want to move the goalposts.

[Whateverman]

Ah, so you want to move the goalposts.

Nope. You want to claim the models / predictions are wrong based on conditions that never existed.

That claim makes you look less than intelligent, and I'm putting this lightly.

[Mountain Man]

Nope. You want to claim the models / predictions are wrong based on conditions that never existed.

No, I don't want you to tell me what you think I said. What did I actually say?

Models and predictions were far in excess of what we've actually seen.

Is that statement true, or false?

[JimL]

No, I don't want you to tell me what you think I said. What did I actually say?
Is that statement true, or false?

I agree with you MM, Trump gets all the credit.

[Whateverman]

No, I don't want you to tell me what you think I said. What did I actually say?

Models and predictions were far in excess of what we've actually seen.

Is that statement true, or false?

It's false, because we haven't seen an America that didn't take measures to mitigate the spread of the virus.

That's what your predictions were about: casualties if we did nothing.

We haven't done nothing, so the predictions have neither been shown to be accurate or inaccurate ;)

[Mountain Man]

It's false, because we haven't seen an America that didn't take measures to mitigate the spread of the virus.

Which is just another way of saying that models and predictions were far in excess of what we've actually seen, yes?

[Cow Poke]

Which is just another way of saying that models and predictions were far in excess of what we've actually seen, yes?

The doom-and-gloomers had nothing to lose here --- they could do like they did with the endless dire warnings of Global Warming, but in THIS case, if they were wrong, they could simply brag, "well, yeah, but WE kept it from happening!!!"

By the way -- have you noticed that COVID-19 has solved Global Warming?

[Whateverman]

Which is just another way of saying that models and predictions were far in excess of what we've actually seen, yes?

Nope, because the models weren't applicable for a nation that implemented mitigation factors. The models even mentioned this, but you ignore it - because it doesn't fit your narrative.

[Zara]

Which is why I mentioned "actual numbers", and the leftists went on a tirade.

The actual numbers come after, as an estimate based on a all cause of death increase over a period. As it stands the all cause of death for the period is significantly higher, more than 20,000, indicating that the current official figure is likely an undercount. However, you've already agreed you're fine with the official telly, so, good for you.

I see you're not challenging your nutso friend on his speculative hand-waving though.

[Zara]

The doom-and-gloomers had nothing to lose here --- they could do like they did with the endless dire warnings of Global Warming, but in THIS case, if they were wrong, they could simply brag, "well, yeah, but WE kept it from happening!!!"

By the way -- have you noticed that COVID-19 has solved Global Warming?

I'm sure that if you were to get a cancer diagnosis, and the doctor explains what is likely to happen based on population study models if you don't opt for treatment, you'll tell him he was wrong after you opted for treatment regarding those models. Because it didn't turn out as bad as those models.

The model itself stated that the outcomes were based on no intervention, like, it literally said it as part of the model framework.

I mean, how dumb are you, really. Or is it delusional? Maybe god will come in and save you from your stupidity, lol.

[Zara]

Is that reality? I know there has been a lot of padding of the numbers from hospitals who get extra funding for every China flu death they report, and there has been a lot of conflation of "died from the Wuhan virus" and "died with the Wuhan virus". Even if they simply appear to have had China flu-like symptoms, then doctors are encouraged to write that down as the cause of death even if ti's never actually confirmed because they don't want to waste test kits on the dead.

Trump, has made many false claims regarding the end total of the crisis, but one clear point is that he said he would have done a good job if deaths were below 100,000.

The official tally is now closer to 25% higher, at 126,000 on the CDC telly (higher on Worldmeter). Your deranged little friend agrees with the official telly btw. So, for him at least the following argument is sound. Since you have little official ground to hand-wave away the official telly, I'll just ignore you. No offense.

Therefore, Trump, by his own standard, has done a bad job. Meanwhile you say he has "done a good job", so, you don't agree with Trumps own standard or you're delusional (conspiracy about official figures).

Meanwhile, the number of new cases is accelerating again.

I think the US is doing pretty well, all things considered. We just need to let people go back to work so that the economic recovery can begin.

You mean, compared to Europe, where the virus is largely under control and if contact tracing is effective they will have effectively eliminated the virus, allowing for people to go "back to work". Meanwhile in the US the number of new cases hit record levels a few days ago, prompting state-wide moves to return to control measures. Very well, yes. Deaths lag around a month behind, people need to get sicker which takes time.

Meanwhile the President and his theocratic little munchkin henchman have declared that the crises is all but over and that a good job was done

[Cow Poke]

The actual numbers come after, as an estimate based on a all cause of death increase over a period. As it stands the all cause of death for the period is significantly higher, more than 20,000, indicating that the current official figure is likely an undercount. However, you've already agreed you're fine with the official telly, so, good for you.

Wow, I'm so VERY proud --- a leftist nutter said "good for you", because I simply looked for and found what are reportedly actual numbers! I can now die in peace.

I see you're not challenging your nutso friend on his speculative hand-waving though.

I'm not a back-stabber, no.

[little_monkey]

That's old news.

No it's not, it's in the news today. Texas could be facing ‘humanitarian catastrophe,' health experts say. Keep dodging with the nonsense, "it's just another flu virus".