How much of this is Trump's fault?

[JimL]

OK, so let's pretend you can actually formulate an honest accusation. Please provide, using the actual quote function, what I said that is "dishonest".

Thanks.

PS -- you might try educating yourself on Tweb's actually policy of accusing others of lying.

I didn't accuse you of lying, I was refering to your post where you dihonestly suggested that those of us on the other side of the issue were, according to our posts, wishing for more deaths and financial ruin.

"How sad it must be to wish deaths and financial ruin on your country for political reasons." Not one person suggested having any such wish.

[Cow Poke]

I didn't accuse you of lying,

No, you took the cowardly way out and accused me of being dishonest.

I was refering to your post where you dihonestly suggested

How can a "suggestion" be dishonest if the person "suggesting" it believes it to be true?

that those of us on the other side of the issue were, according to our posts, wishing for more deaths and financial ruin.

Exact quote, please.

"How sad it must be to wish deaths and financial ruin on your country for political reasons."

That's how it appears to me, yes. Some of the Democrats were even bragging hoping for a recession to ruin Trump's chances of reelection.

Frustrated Democrats still hoping in vain for recession

“Here Comes the Trump Slump” warned yet another anti-Trump column from New York Times columnist Paul Krugman last week. This is the same Paul Krugman who predicted the stock market would “never” recover from its initial sell-off on news of a Trump victory. He also said Trump's election would usher in a global recession. Oops.

Krugman writes that Trump’s trade policies are pushing the economy into a downturn, looking especially at the recent weakness in manufacturing and exports, which have indeed been dinged by the president’s confrontation with China.

He suggests that a slowdown could so damage Trump’s reelection prospects that the president will probably pressure federal bean-counters to inflate the numbers.

Not one person suggested having any such wish.

It is my personal opinion that many Democrats hate Trump so much that they'd welcome anything it took to get him out of office. Why are you taking this so personally, Jim?

[mossrose]

Moderator Notice

Jim, I have reported 2 posts in this thread where you have accused CP of dishonesty. You will be moderated when the available moderators get around to it. You had better cut it out, because you already have moderation against you for the same failing from just a few days ago. And if you keep it up you will be having a little vacation from the site.

***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Psychotherapy Room unless told otherwise.

[Mountain Man]

Who cares about prediction?! Leadership is about what's happening on the ground, and the picture is ugly. We are #1 in cases, and #1 in deaths.

Of course "nobody" cares about the predictions since liberals didn't get the million deaths to lay at Trump's feet that they were gleefully anticipating. But as Thoughtful Monk pointed out, a comparison of per capita numbers shows that the US is doing at least as well as any other country at mitigating the China flu.

[Whateverman]

Of course "nobody" cares about the predictions since liberals didn't get the million deaths to lay at Trump's feet that they were gleefully anticipating.

No one predicted millions of death as a thing which might come to pass.

As long as you repeat this false claim, I will repeatedly correct you.

[Cow Poke]

No one predicted millions of death as a thing which might come to pass.

As long as you repeat this false claim, I will repeatedly correct you.

Here is from whence a lot of the predictions came....

2.2 Million American Deaths from Covid-19?

[Whateverman]

Here is from whence a lot of the predictions came....

2.2 Million American Deaths from Covid-19?

That's a prediction based on the virus going unchecked.

The virus did not go unchecked, and anyone who thought that we might do nothing about it is an idiot.

Maintaining that people predicted several millions deaths is dishonest, because the prediction relied upon a situation which was never going to exist.

[rogue06]

There you go with your dishonest and disparaging remarks again. What is it with you CP, you just can't help yourself or what? Name me one person here who has wished for more deaths or financial ruin.

All too easy...

As the late Billy Mays used to say, "But wait, there's more!"

Aside from Maher (who actually doubled down on his remarks as well as our own little jimmy defending him

In defense of Mr. Maher, the survival of democracy is more important to him than the temporary setback in an improving economy which improvement Trump had little to do with anyway.

you also have folks such as Paul Krugman, the economist for your precious New York Times, who has been pining for what he calls the "Trump Slump" among other things. This is the same clown who proclaimed that the stock market would "never" recover from its initial sell-off on news of a Trump victory and that Trump's election would immediately trigger a global recession.

And recently Rep. John Delaney (D - MD) chastised members in his own party for cheer leading for a financial collapse: PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE JOHN DELANEY SAYS 'SOME DEMOCRATS ARE CHEERING ON A RECESSION' TO 'STICK IT TO TRUMP'


ETA: I managed to omit that a long-time staffer for the left leaning, nakedly anti-Trump Atlantic magazine thought it necessary to caution readers to not root for a recession just because one would likely hurt Trump and a writer at New York magazine pondering the question of whether a recession is worth getting rid of Trump and concluding it would be a mixed bag:

We all would like to see Trump gone in 2021. If we also believe that a recession would significantly boost the odds of that happening, should we be rooting for one, despite the pain it would cause millions of people?

...

My take is that if you believe a second Trump term would be a true disaster for the country and for the world — and I count myself among those who do — it’s not insane to have mixed feelings about all this.

So little jimmy, your ganja-addled self, along with many others, have supported "financial ruin" as the above demonstrated.

[rogue06]

That's a prediction based on the virus going unchecked.

The virus did not go unchecked, and anyone who thought that we might do nothing about it is an idiot.

Maintaining that people predicted several millions deaths is dishonest, because the prediction relied upon a situation which was never going to exist.

FWIU some of those predictions of between 1 and 2.2 MILLION Chicom coronavirus-related deaths factored in things like social distancing

[rogue06]

No one predicted millions of death as a thing which might come to pass.

As long as you repeat this false claim, I will repeatedly correct you.

Wrong.

Neil Ferguson and his colleagues at Imperial College London gathered an enormous amount of attention in very short order by producing enormous fatality rate estimates such as 510,000 dead in Britain and up to 2,200,000 in the U.S. (Paper)

Here is how the New York Times reported it:

Source: Behind the Virus Report That Jarred the U.S. and the U.K. to Action

It wasn’t so much the numbers themselves, frightening though they were, as who reported them: Imperial College London.
...

That messy back-and-forth has been on vivid display this week with the publication of a startling new report on the virus from a team at Imperial College in London. The report, which warned that an uncontrolled spread of the disease could cause as many as 510,000 deaths in Britain, triggered a sudden shift in the government’s comparatively relaxed response to the virus.

American officials said the report, which projected up to 2.2 million deaths in the United States from such a spread, also influenced the White House to strengthen its measures to isolate members of the public.



Source

© Copyright Original Source

Nicholas Kristof echoed this in an op-ed for the paper:

Source: The Best-Case Outcome for the Coronavirus, and the Worst

Will we endure 2.2 million deaths? Or will we manage to turn things around?
...


Dr. Neil M. Ferguson, a British epidemiologist who is regarded as one of the best disease modelers in the world, produced a sophisticated model with a worst case of 2.2 million deaths in the United States.

I asked Ferguson for his best case. “About 1.1 million deaths,” he said.

When that’s a best-case scenario, it’s difficult to feel optimistic.



Source

© Copyright Original Source

[Mountain Man]

No one predicted millions of death as a thing which might come to pass.

As long as you repeat this false claim, I will repeatedly correct you.

I didn't say "millions". If you're going to insist on nitpicking my every post, you could at least bother to read what I've actually written.

[Mountain Man]

That's a prediction based on the virus going unchecked.

The virus did not go unchecked...

Exactly, it didn't go unchecked. The Trump administration took steps to mitigate the spread of the China flu, and as a result, we've seen a minuscule fraction of what was originally modeled and predicted.

So does Trump get the credit?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I think, as the thread I started suggested, that Memorial Day was an early "Independence Day", where people were fed up with being shut in, and went on about their family gatherings, picnics, swim parties, etc...

It's pretty hard to battle the human spirit of "I want freedom".

Freedom at any price seems to be the attitude among some. I want my freedom and if I infect Joe and he carries the virus to his elderly parent or his friend undergoing chemo, well that's Joe, his friend, and/or Joe's parent's 's tough luck. I want my freedom.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Wrong.

Neil Ferguson and his colleagues at Imperial College London gathered an enormous amount of attention in very short order by producing enormous fatality rate estimates such as 510,000 dead in Britain and up to 2,200,000 in the U.S. (Paper)

Here is how the New York Times reported it:

Source: Behind the Virus Report That Jarred the U.S. and the U.K. to Action

It wasn’t so much the numbers themselves, frightening though they were, as who reported them: Imperial College London.
...

That messy back-and-forth has been on vivid display this week with the publication of a startling new report on the virus from a team at Imperial College in London. The report, which warned that an uncontrolled spread of the disease could cause as many as 510,000 deaths in Britain, triggered a sudden shift in the government’s comparatively relaxed response to the virus.

American officials said the report, which projected up to 2.2 million deaths in the United States from such a spread, also influenced the White House to strengthen its measures to isolate members of the public.



Source

© Copyright Original Source

Nicholas Kristof echoed this in an op-ed for the paper:

Source: The Best-Case Outcome for the Coronavirus, and the Worst

Will we endure 2.2 million deaths? Or will we manage to turn things around?
...


Dr. Neil M. Ferguson, a British epidemiologist who is regarded as one of the best disease modelers in the world, produced a sophisticated model with a worst case of 2.2 million deaths in the United States.

I asked Ferguson for his best case. “About 1.1 million deaths,” he said.

When that’s a best-case scenario, it’s difficult to feel optimistic.



Source

© Copyright Original Source

Ferguson and his team's modelling has been questioned but bear in mind, this isn't over yet.

[Cow Poke]

Freedom at any price seems to be the attitude among some. I want my freedom and if I infect Joe and he carries the virus to his elderly parent or his friend undergoing chemo, well that's Joe, his friend, and/or Joe's parent's 's tough luck. I want my freedom.

Sadly, yeah, there's a lot of that.