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How much of this is Trump's fault?

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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Since you seem to be one of the slow kids, let me connect the dots for you:

    1) Models and predictions said that the China flu would kill over one millions American citizens.
    2) The Trump administration responded.
    3) Deaths are a tiny fraction of what was originally predicted.

    So does Trump get the credit or not?
    Models said the Kung Flu would kill over one million american citizens over what timespan? I actually asked this question when the Wachaaa Contagion started spreading but neither side seemed to have a concrete answer.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
      Regardless of what predictions were The result of the US response is one of the worst results in the world and continues to get worse.
      If you measure by sheer number of cases, yes. However, the US has the 3rd highest population in the world (behind China and India) so of course we are going to have more cases. D'oh.

      I prefer to look at the per capita cases to see how we're doing compared to other countries. From RealClearPolitics chart: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/

      county: deaths per 1million pop; fatality rate on confirmed cases
      US: 329.9; 4.85%
      UK: 655.4; 13.97%
      France: 444.5; 18.28%
      Mexico: 211.2; 12.29%
      Netherlands: 354.4; 12.16%

      You can go read the chart for yourself. Ok, I'll agree the US doesn't have the best results in the world. But when I look at the numbers I have a hard time believing we have "one of the worst results in the world". We seem somewhere in the average results and frankly it looks like one of the best places to be to survive if you do get it.
      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

      Comment


      • Originally posted by little_monkey View Post
        What's your point? You think those counties with low numbers are shielded?? If no measures are taken, they will suffer the same fate.
        I'm sure glad you're on "their" side.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by little_monkey View Post
          What's your point? You think those counties with low numbers are shielded?? If no measures are taken, they will suffer the same fate.
          lower population density = lower transmission.

          As long as it doesn't overwhelm health resources it doesn't matter.
          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by little_monkey View Post
            Yes, he gets the credit for making the US the worst country on the planet dealing with the pandemic.
            It's all relative, and it's down to the response of individual states -- with the exception of Killer Cuomo and his sister state New Jersey, the US has done exceptionally well overall. But the fact remains: the impact of the China flu on the US has been a minuscule fraction of what was originally predicted. That's a success no matter how you want to spin it.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              I'm sure glad you're on "their" side.
              No one that I know is on the side of the corona virus. To defeat this pandemic is a no brainer. I wear a mask so you don't get contaminated from me. You wear a mask so I don't get contaminated from you. If everyone wears a mask, no one gets contaminated. End of pandemic. But it takes leaders to enforce that. In the US, there is definitely a lack of leadership.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                But the fact remains: the impact of the China flu on the US has been a minuscule fraction of what was originally predicted.
                Who cares about prediction?! Leadership is about what's happening on the ground, and the picture is ugly. We are #1 in cases, and #1 in deaths.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                  If you measure by sheer number of cases, yes. However, the US has the 3rd highest population in the world (behind China and India) so of course we are going to have more cases. D'oh.

                  I prefer to look at the per capita cases to see how we're doing compared to other countries. From RealClearPolitics chart: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/

                  county: deaths per 1million pop; fatality rate on confirmed cases
                  US: 329.9; 4.85%
                  UK: 655.4; 13.97%
                  France: 444.5; 18.28%
                  Mexico: 211.2; 12.29%
                  Netherlands: 354.4; 12.16%

                  You can go read the chart for yourself. Ok, I'll agree the US doesn't have the best results in the world. But when I look at the numbers I have a hard time believing we have "one of the worst results in the world". We seem somewhere in the average results and frankly it looks like one of the best places to be to survive if you do get it.
                  This isn't an unreasonable analysis.

                  I would simply add that just because infection percentages are low (relatively-speaking) doesn't mean that one country's 5% (for example) is equivalent to another's. It surely has to count that "5%" meaning 100,000 people and "5%" meaning 10 million people aren't comparable.

                  And really, the US has liked to think of itself as a world leader and a super-power; shouldn't we be doing better on a number of fronts, given our technology and wealth? More to the point, shouldn't we be avoiding the kind of resurgence we're currently experiencing?

                  Again, I agree with your analysis. I just think it's an incomplete picture.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by little_monkey View Post
                    No one that I know is on the side of the corona virus.
                    Not directly, no, but if this crisis can be used against Trump, full speed ahead! After all, that's the very purpose of this thread.

                    To defeat this pandemic is a no brainer. I wear a mask so you don't get contaminated from me. You wear a mask so I don't get contaminated from you. If everyone wears a mask, no one gets contaminated.
                    That's WAY oversimplifying the situation. Somebody wearing a mask can most certainly be infected through other means.

                    End of pandemic. But it takes leaders to enforce that. In the US, there is definitely a lack of leadership.
                    Well, I'll grant you there's a lot of mixed messaging from the "experts", so, yeah, that's a problem, too.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Right, which means that the efforts by the administration to "flatten the curve" have been a YUGE success
                      Considering that the curve isn't flat but is instead sloping up, and that we're the only post-industrial country where this is so - no. It doesn't mean that.

                      Not even close :)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                        Considering that the curve isn't flat but is instead sloping up, and that we're the only post-industrial country where this is so - no. It doesn't mean that.

                        Not even close :)
                        I think, as the thread I started suggested, that Memorial Day was an early "Independence Day", where people were fed up with being shut in, and went on about their family gatherings, picnics, swim parties, etc...

                        It's pretty hard to battle the human spirit of "I want freedom".
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          What's amazing is how the left seems to be clinging to the hope that it will get REALLY worse, because it looks worse for Trump.

                          Same with the economy.

                          How sad it must be to be in a position to wish deaths and financial ruin on your country for political purposes.
                          There you go with your dishonest and disparaging remarks again. What is it with you CP, you just can't help yourself or what? Name me one person here who has wished for more deaths or financial ruin.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            There you go with your dishonest and disparaging remarks again.
                            Jim, if I've said something dishonest, then man up and point it out in the same post where you make that gutless cowardly claim, OK?

                            Apparently, you've really allowed me to get under your incredibly thin skin, but there's nothing I've said that can be construed as "dishonest".

                            What is it CP, you just can't help yourself or what? Name me one person here who has wished for more deaths or financial ruin.
                            Even you wouldn't be stupid enough to admit it openly, Jim.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Jim, if I've said something dishonest, then man up and point it out in the same post where you make that gutless cowardly claim, OK?

                              Apparently, you've really allowed me to get under your incredibly thin skin, but there's nothing I've said that can be construed as "dishonest".



                              Even you wouldn't be stupid enough to admit it openly, Jim.
                              Oh, I see, so you just accuse people of saying stuff because it's what you believe they think, but not what they've actually said they think. Gotcha!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                Oh, I see, so you just accuse people of saying stuff because it's what you believe they think, but not what they've actually said they think. Gotcha!
                                OK, so let's pretend you can actually formulate an honest accusation. Please provide, using the actual quote function, what I said that is "dishonest".

                                Thanks.

                                PS -- you might try educating yourself on Tweb's actually policy of accusing others of lying.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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