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Russian Bounty on U.S. military in Afghanistan.

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  • #31
    Lincoln project with the 24 hour turnaround on this one.

    "When Trump tells you he stands by the troops he's right... just not our troops."

    This has now been confirmed by the Europeans and led to "causalties". This scandal will be the final nail in the coffin of the GOP.
    Last edited by DivineOb; 06-27-2020, 07:56 PM.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
      Lincoln project with the 24 hour turnaround on this one.

      "When Trump tells you he stands by the troops he's right... just not our troops."

      This has now been confirmed by the Europeans and led to "causalties". This scandal will be the final nail in the coffin of the GOP.
      It wont, for several reasons.

      One of them is that the GOP died several years ago. What we have before us today is a group of people who care more about their tribe than their country - and this nail wont affect them in the least.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
        Lincoln project with the 24 hour turnaround on this one.

        "When Trump tells you he stands by the troops he's right... just not our troops."

        This has now been confirmed by the Europeans and led to "causalties". This scandal will be the final nail in the coffin of the GOP.
        It's an anti-Trump ad on Twitter based on the baseless NYT article. So?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
          It's an anti-Trump ad on Twitter based on the baseless NYT article. So?
          Confirmed by Fox News.


          A Russian spy unit paid members of Afghanistan’s Taliban movement to conduct lethal attacks on U.S. troops in that country, according to a classified American intelligence assessment, people familiar with the report said.

          The assessment of the role played by Russia’s military intelligence agency, the GRU, in fostering attacks on American soldiers, comes as President Trump is pushing the Pentagon to withdraw a significant portion of U.S. forces from Afghanistan and as U.S. diplomats try to forge a peace accord involving the Taliban and the U.S.-backed Afghan government.

          The intelligence assessment regarding Russia’s actions in Afghanistan was delivered to the White House earlier this spring, and until recently had been known only to a handful of officials, a person familiar with it said.


          Since you're sure this is groundless can I get you to unequivocally state that rewarding Russia by asking them to be admitted back into the G7 (8) after learning of such actions would be unforgivable?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
            Confirmed by Fox News.
            You mean repeated by Fox News. They aren't any better than NYT - apparently referring to the same unnamed sources.

            Since you're sure this is groundless can I get you to unequivocally state that rewarding Russia by asking them to be admitted back into the G7 (8) after learning of such actions would be unforgivable?
            If true? Yes. If this is investigated and proven true, and to have come from the top (not just some renegade commander in the field), then I'd also expel Russian diplomats, impose the toughest sanctions yet, and seek UN condemnation.

            But this falls into the conspiracy theory category for me, where the risk isn't worth the gain. What does Russia gain by killing a few American soldiers? We lost 22 soldiers in Afghanistan in 2019. What great gain does this give to Russia? Nothing. What price would Russia pay if exposed? A great deal of reputation on the world stage among neutral countries. Oh sure, Iran would get fuzzies over it but most countries would look at Russia as a bad actor and would negatively affect their dealings with them.

            It does not make sense. Again, perhaps - perhaps - some low-level commander might make such an offer. I'd like to see something substantial though, and not an NYT article based on unnamed sources about interrogating Taliban prisoners. That's supposedly where all of this came from.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Ronson View Post
              "...The New York Times reported Friday."

              The NYT referencing unnamed sources isn't terribly impressive. It may be true, or partially true, or complete baloney. It's usually in the "partially" true category.

              Until a legitimate source puts some verification on this, I won't get too nervous about it.
              Excuse making for Trump, as usual.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                And that's why the Republican party is full of traitors. This is Trump's largest scandal *by far*, and one I struggle to imagine could be topped. Apathy towards this betrays it a fundamental disloyalty to the United States.
                It sounds like "Iraq WMDs" all over again. For some reason MIC has had a vested interested keeping US troops in Afghanistan for two decades, and no one knows why really, but they want our troops to stay there really bad for some reasons. The idea that Russia is paying taliban to oft US troops gives them more of an incentive to stay, because now they have the Russian boogieman to fight against in that territory. We can't leave because then Russia would win. See how that works?
                Last edited by seanD; 06-27-2020, 09:27 PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                  You mean repeated by Fox News. They aren't any better than NYT - apparently referring to the same unnamed sources.



                  If true? Yes. If this is investigated and proven true, and to have come from the top (not just some renegade commander in the field), then I'd also expel Russian diplomats, impose the toughest sanctions yet, and seek UN condemnation.

                  But this falls into the conspiracy theory category for me, where the risk isn't worth the gain. What does Russia gain by killing a few American soldiers? We lost 22 soldiers in Afghanistan in 2019. What great gain does this give to Russia? Nothing. What price would Russia pay if exposed? A great deal of reputation on the world stage among neutral countries. Oh sure, Iran would get fuzzies over it but most countries would look at Russia as a bad actor and would negatively affect their dealings with them.

                  It does not make sense. Again, perhaps - perhaps - some low-level commander might make such an offer. I'd like to see something substantial though, and not an NYT article based on unnamed sources about interrogating Taliban prisoners. That's supposedly where all of this came from.
                  They hate us for our freedom?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by seanD View Post
                    It sounds like "Iraq WMDs" all over again. For some reason MIC has had a vested interested keeping US troops in Afghanistan for two decades, and no one knows why really, but they want our troops to stay there really bad for some reasons. The idea that Russia is paying taliban to oft US troops gives them more of an incentive to stay, because now they have the Russian boogieman to fight against in that territory. We can't leave because then Russia would win. See how that works?
                    Who/what is the MIC? Anyway, Russia would love to keep the US bogged down in Afghanistan which is why having the Taliban killing US soldiers during peace talks would make sense. Where Putin and Erdagon didn't want the US was in Syria, so Trump packed up, abandoned our allies the Kurds, and left. Now he's doing Putin another favor, he's pulling US troops out of Germany and stationing them in Poland.

                    http://www.stripes.com/news/europe/t...-says-1.632622
                    Last edited by JimL; 06-27-2020, 09:53 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      Excuse making for Trump, as usual.
                      I'm asking for something substantial. If you wish to buy into this based solely on anonymous NYT sources, that's your choice.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Who/what is the MIC? Anyway, Russia would love to keep the US bogged down in Afghanistan which is why having the Taliban killing US soldiers during peace talks would make sense. Where Putin and Erdagon didn't want the US was in Syria, so Trump packed up, abandoned our allies the Kurds, and left. Now he's doing Putin another favor, he's pulling US troops out of Germany and stationing them in Poland.
                        Why would they need to keep us "bogged down?" We've been there for two decades, even in spite of the fact we've had successful "peace talks" before. How many "peace talks" does that make so far? I believe we had a couple under Obama? We're not leaving and we've given no indication of leaving. Like Ronson said, they have nothing to gain. MIC (military industrial complex, as described by Eisenhower himself during a national speech) has everything to gain by making up this new threat because they want us to stay permanently apparently, and this gives them a reason to stay permanently.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                          You mean repeated by Fox News. They aren't any better than NYT - apparently referring to the same unnamed sources.
                          Pathetic. So even Fox News is uncredible in your eyes now? This is their independent reporting of the story which was reported by NYT. This isn't them reporting on what NYT reported.


                          If true? Yes. If this is investigated and proven true, and to have come from the top (not just some renegade commander in the field), then I'd also expel Russian diplomats, impose the toughest sanctions yet, and seek UN condemnation.
                          The scandal is Trump's response, not whether it came directly from Putin (though it obviously did). I hate this game but if Obama knew that even a low level Russian commander made such an overture and took no action and even rewarded Russia afterwards you (and I) would want his head.


                          But this falls into the conspiracy theory category for me, where the risk isn't worth the gain. What does Russia gain by killing a few American soldiers? We lost 22 soldiers in Afghanistan in 2019. What great gain does this give to Russia? Nothing. What price would Russia pay if exposed? A great deal of reputation on the world stage among neutral countries. Oh sure, Iran would get fuzzies over it but most countries would look at Russia as a bad actor and would negatively affect their dealings with them.
                          They paid no cost of any sort until this leaked out. They were even rewarded after Trump became aware of it!

                          It does not make sense. Again, perhaps - perhaps - some low-level commander might make such an offer. I'd like to see something substantial though, and not an NYT article based on unnamed sources about interrogating Taliban prisoners. That's supposedly where all of this came from.
                          This is Fox News independently reporting the news, not Fox reporting on NYT's reporting (this is also been independently confirmed by WaPo and our European allies).

                          ETA: Also note that Trump and Pence's response has been

                          1) They were never told about this (you actually believe that?)
                          2) Absolute silence on any sort of response now they they have become aware (Trump even went golfing rather than brainstorm a response!)

                          2) is virtual proof that 1) is false. Then one is left wondering why they would deny having heard about this.
                          Last edited by DivineOb; 06-27-2020, 10:12 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                            Pathetic. So even Fox News is uncredible in your eyes now?
                            "Now"? You may be confusing me with someone else. They've never been very credible to me.

                            This is their independent reporting of the story which was reported by NYT. This isn't them reporting on what NYT reported.
                            Looks like the same thing to me.

                            The scandal is Trump's response, not whether it came directly from Putin (though it obviously did). I hate this game but if Obama knew that even a low level Russian commander made such an overture and took no action and even rewarded Russia afterwards you (and I) would want his head.
                            Interesting suggestion. No, I wouldn't necessarily want Obama's head. If a low-level commander offered the bounty and Putin had the guy shot for it, and then Putin and Obama agreed to keep it on the low-down because of the politics involved, I would understand the rationale.

                            This is Fox News independently reporting the news, not Fox reporting on NYT's reporting (this is also been independently confirmed by WaPo and our European allies).

                            ETA: Also note that Trump and Pence's response has been

                            1) They were never told about this (you actually believe that?)
                            2) Absolute silence on any sort of response now they they have become aware (Trump even went golfing rather than brainstorm a response!)

                            2) is virtual proof that 1) is false. Then one is left wondering why they would deny having heard about this.
                            As far as silence, it's still early. If Trump remains silent in the next couple of days then that would be weird enough to consider (since he rarely keeps his mouth shut).

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                              "Now"? You may be confusing me with someone else. They've never been very credible to me.
                              You all look alike to me.


                              Looks like the same thing to me.
                              FLC independently spoke to their sources and independently determined them to be credible.


                              Interesting suggestion. No, I wouldn't necessarily want Obama's head. If a low-level commander offered the bounty and Putin had the guy shot for it, and then Putin and Obama agreed to keep it on the low-down because of the politics involved, I would understand the rationale.
                              Then Obama can truthfully say he reached out to Russia who agreed that such bounties were inappropriate and assured that such would not be offered again. Trump, instead, has denied even hearing about the bounties and then went golfing rather than actually figure out how to handle the situation.


                              As far as silence, it's still early. If Trump remains silent in the next couple of days then that would be weird enough to consider (since he rarely keeps his mouth shut).
                              We'll see then. I agree he probably won't stay quiet for long.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                Russia paid bounty to Taliban to kill US soldiers as well as NATO ally soldiers in Afghanistan according to U.S.Intelligence. Trump was briefed on this in March and given a list of responses such as sanctions. Trumps only response thus far was to plead for Russia's re-entry into the G-7.

                                http://www.newsmax.com/us/russia-afg.../26/id/974430/
                                Hey guys did you know Saddam has weapons of mass destruction?

                                Neocon US intelligence wants another war, news at 11.
                                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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