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Anarchists of Today Same as Boston Tea Party Actors?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    neither means neither despite your hyperbole. This is about statues, not burning, looting, and rioting.
    It's pretty much the same mentality, Jim. Is the mayhem and chaos is coming from your buddies.

    Try not to be dishonest.
    Try to be adult, Jim -- there's nothing dishonest here at all, and it's gutless cowardly for you to imply it is.
    Last edited by Cow Poke; 06-28-2020, 08:54 PM.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      Again, see if you can't keep your stories straight. Statue toppling-Tea party.
      Statue toppling? That's what you're going to try to call wanton destruction of public property?

      statue 1a.jpg statue 2a.jpg

      Just buddies of yours having a little fun, Jim?
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        Canada, Australia, and New Zealand all didn't perform that 'heroic deed' and they turned out fine. So from that perspective the war of independence does seem like a relatively senseless act of violence.
        That's a fairly poor argument. The American Revolutionary War no doubt had a profound influence on the relationship between Canada and Britain... you can't try to say that Canada didn't require a revolution because its peaceful independence (well, it and the other countries you listed are nominally still part of Britain) only came after the Revolutionary War; to claim that everything would have happened the exact same way had the Revolutionary War not occurred, or had been lost, is patently absurd. With Canada, the US winning independence most certainly affected British and Canadian history to such an extent that it's hard to do much more than speculate as to what would have happened with Canada in an alternate universe where America didn't fight for and win its independence.

        Australia and New Zealand, meanwhile, didn't even become real colonies until after the American Revolution, in large part because Britain lost the American colonies and needed to set up new ones. It wasn't until even later than that that the colonies were organized enough to particularly want to be their own proper nation... and by that time, Britain and the world in general had changed dramatically. Their desire for independence thus took place under considerably different circumstances than that of the US's. Furthermore, this again can't be extricated from the American Revolution because some those various changes in Britain and the world in general were either directly or indirectly the result of the American Revolution.

        So I don't think this argument of yours makes much sense.
        Last edited by Terraceth; 06-28-2020, 09:40 PM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Doesn't change the fact that it was a violent protest against what the colonist thought to be wrong. Throwing tea into the sea, toppling statues of racist traitors.
          So tell me little jimmy, just how many churches and businesses did the Founding Fathers loot and burn during the Boston Tea Party?

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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          • #35
            Terraceth, I don't see a point in quibbling with you over details of alternative histories, as they are unfalsifiable. In that sense I don't find your post at all interesting or convincing.

            But, consider the following hypothetical over-the-top hagiographic view, which I will write and exaggerate for the purposes of criticising:

            The US Founding Fathers, being men of such caliber as have never since walked the earth, lived at a pivotal movement in history, and invented freedom and democracy, which has now spread out to all the earth from their great and glorious deed.

            Should they have failed in their Great Revolutionary Act, or never themselves lived, all nations would be now without freedom and democracy. For it was in no way possible that anyone else should discover those Unique Ideas, as they were reserved to be the prerogative of those Luminaries. Nor was it possible that the character and actions of anyone else living since could have ever matched that of those unique and remarkable men.

            Not the greatest of philosophers since, nor the most revolutionary of protesters, would ever have even tried to seek freedom and democracy were it not for those Great Luminaries who lighted the way for all.

            And for those reasons it is utterly wrong to even think to compare any person or group in the present, in any way, to the greatness of those Great Men.

            That view, I hope we can agree, is a steaming pile of horse manure. It has its head so far up its rear end it's turned inside out, and only someone who had been indoctrinated from birth in overzealous patriotism could take it at all seriously. Perhaps those of you here who are Americans though, don't realize how much of that demented view above you've actually imbibed unconsciously.

            I am seeing glimmers of that view when I read CP's posts in this thread and that is what I am objecting to. I am asserting that if those men hadn't taken that act at that point in time, other men at other times would have made similar acts. If one rebellion or revolution didn't succeed there would have been others. If violent ones failed, non-violent ones would have been tried. If rapid action failed, slow change would have been tried. Other revolutionaries can have the same revolutionary spirit and zeal as those historical men, they weren't divine, they weren't fundamentally unique in their nature. I don't think that's controversial.

            CP's been giving off the whiff of horse manure from the view above throughout this thread, with his constant refusal to accept the basic notion that comparing two groups of revolutionaries is in any way valid. He's repeatedly hinted that he sees the Sons of Liberty as being incomparable in nature with men of today (which is, in essence his point of creating this thread). E.g:
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            ...But to try to equate them with the Sons of Liberty.....

            Even you know better.
            Throughout this thread there's been a tendency of him to come close to deifying them and their accomplishments. I call cow poop on all of it. If those men, with all their many failings, did what they did, other men with just as many failings could have done likewise in their own times. There's nothing at all wrong with, or unreasonable about, comparing groups of people today to them.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              The Boston Tea Party was organized, brief, and had the intent of accomplishing a specific goal without collateral damage. It wasn't an aimless riot that randomly targeted innocent citizens and their businesses, stretching on for weeks with no end game.
              For some reason, I wonder why, you and CP keep conflating the protests concerning the police abuse of power with the toppling of statues. This thread is about the similarities between the statue topplers and the Bostonians who threw British tea into the sea. Whether it was organized or not is neither here nor there, they both were intent on accomplishing a specific goal without collateral damage.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                Terraceth, I don't see a point in quibbling with you ...
                That's all you ever do - quibble.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  ....If those men, with all their many failings, did what they did, other men with just as many failings could have done likewise in their own times. There's nothing at all wrong with, or unreasonable about, comparing groups of people today to them.
                  There's a world of difference between "what they did" and what others "could have done".
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    For some reason, I wonder why, you and CP keep conflating the protests concerning the police abuse of power with the toppling of statues.
                    I defend the peaceful protests without reservation. I condemn the looting and burning and chaos and mayhem associated with those protests that get out of control, including the destruction of public property that you love to call "the toppling of statutes", which shows your support for chaos and mayhem.

                    This thread is about the similarities between the statue topplers
                    Look at the thread title, Jim --- the ANARCHISTS.

                    and the Bostonians who threw British tea into the sea.
                    Yes, if they had stolen the tea and hauled it home and burned the ship, then, yes, they would have been more like the anarchists you defend.

                    Whether it was organized or not is neither here nor there, they both were intent on accomplishing a specific goal without collateral damage.
                    Good job, Sons of Liberty. Not so good, actors of mayhem and chaos.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      So tell me little jimmy, just how many churches and businesses did the Founding Fathers loot and burn during the Boston Tea Party?
                      Wrong subject rogue, try to stay focused.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Wrong subject rogue, try to stay focused.
                        The thread title is about your anarchist buddies, Jim. Rogue is VERY focused.

                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        I'm wondering if there is anybody else who sees the Boston Tea Party as the same -- or even nearly the same -- as what the anarchists are doing across our nation today.
                        Please stop trying to control my thread, K?
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          I defend the peaceful protests without reservation. I condemn the looting and burning and chaos and mayhem associated with those protests that get out of control, including the destruction of public property that you love to call "the toppling of statutes", which shows your support for chaos and mayhem.
                          There you go with your dishonesty again, CP. For one thing you're still trying to conflate the statue toppling issue with the protests over police abuse. I guess because you think it supports your narrative. For another I have said over and over that the unauthorized toppling of statues is wrong and illegal. In my opinion the statues of traitors in the cause of slavery should come down, but they should come down legally.


                          Look at the thread title, Jim --- the ANARCHISTS.
                          The anarchists with respect to the statue topplers and the Boston tea tossers. You made it specific.

                          Looters and random burning of buildings has nothing to do with the actual peaceful protestors against police abuse and is more likely to be the work of hooligans and right wing terrorists taking advantage of the protests. Associating them with the protestors just suits your narrative.


                          Yes, if they had stolen the tea and hauled it home and burned the ship, then, yes, they would have been more like the anarchists you defend.
                          The statue topplers aren't taking the statues home with them, CP. The toppling is based on the principle that they don't belong there, that they were traitors and defenders of slavery. Besides, how do you know what the tea tossers may have taken home with them? They probably didn't have to pay for tea for a years.


                          Good job, Sons of Liberty. Not so good, actors of mayhem and chaos.
                          Well of course, so long as you agree with the illegal activity it's a "good job."
                          Last edited by JimL; 06-29-2020, 10:10 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            There you go with your dishonesty again, CP.
                            Dishonesty? Jim, you're proving you don't have a clue what the difference is between truth and lies, and it's really getting old.

                            For one thing you're still trying to conflate the statue toppling issue with the protests over police abuse.
                            Wrong - As I said, I support the peaceful protests, but not the violent ones.

                            I guess because you think it supports your narrative. For another I have said over and over that the unauthorized toppling of statues is wrong and illegal.
                            Sure, you say that, while defending it.

                            In my opinion the statues of traitors in the cause of slavery should come down, but they should come down legally.
                            Well, stay consistent with that, eh?

                            The anarchists with respect to the statue topplers and the Boston tea tossers. You made it specific. Looters and random burning of buildings has nothing to do with the actual peaceful protestors and is more likely to be the work of hooligans and right wing terrorists taking advantage of the protests. Associating them with the protestors just suits your narrative.
                            See, you're doing it again ---- you claim you oppose the "unauthorized toppling of statues", but you trivialize it by using this goofy euphemism - "statue topplers". They are vandals and anarchists, pure and simple. You can't have it both ways.

                            The statue topplers aren't taking the statues home with them. Besides, how do you know what the tea tossers may have taken home with them? They probably didn't have to pay for tea for a years.
                            You're precious.

                            Well of course, so long as you agree with the illegal activity it's a "good job."
                            It was all part of the Revolutionary WAR, Jim --- which is why you have the freedom to post idiotic stuff.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              The Boston Tea Party was organized, brief, and had the intent of accomplishing a specific goal without collateral damage. It wasn't an aimless riot that randomly targeted innocent citizens and their businesses, stretching on for weeks with no end game.
                              and they didn't loot the ships and steal the tea for themselves.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                and they didn't loot the ships and steal the tea for themselves.


                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                Now, I'll concede this much....

                                IF the Sons of Liberty had grabbed the tea and taken it home and burned the ship --- THEN it would be more like your buddies!
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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