Supreme court strikes down Louisiana law restricting abortions.

[Sparko]

There is no unalienable right to life, either. In select circumstances, citizens and the government can revoke that "right" at will.

I already mentioned that if you commit a crime or try to attack someone else then you can forfeit your right to life and liberty. That doesn't mean that there is no right. It is a foundational principle of the USA as I mentioned before. Whether you personally believe in it or not, is irrelevant.

If it's an unalienable right, then abortion and capital punishment is illegal.

Abortion yes, but they get around it by claiming a fetus is not a person. As far as capital punishment, our laws do not allow the taking away the right to life without a trial by an impartial jury, and is reserved for only the most heinous of crimes. A fetus doesn't get a trial and has committed no crimes.

So we're back to the concept of "rights", and what it means to have one. That concept points to "driving", "getting married" and "going over the speed limit" as being peers to "living"

No, we are still at the point where you don't understand what rights are and are making dumb posts.

[Sparko]

May I point out that the phrase "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is found in the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution, and thus is of essentially no legal weight?

The principals in the DoI are the foundation of our Constitution. This is why the Constitution says that rights not addressed are reserved for the people and that the document only lists the limitations of the government in regards to our rights. Such as the Bill of Rights, which does not confer right to us, but tells what rights we already have and what laws the government CAN'T make against those rights.

So the inalienable right to life is a prior fact. Our government recognizes that everyone has that and other rights given by God, not men.

[JimL]

The principals in the DoI are the foundation of our Constitution. This is why the Constitution says that rights not addressed are reserved for the people and that the document only lists the limitations of the government in regards to our rights. Such as the Bill of Rights, which does not confer right to us, but tells what rights we already have and what laws the government CAN'T make against those rights.

So the inalienable right to life is a prior fact. Our government recognizes that everyone has that and other rights given by God, not men.

Rights are constrained by law, Sparko. You can be imprisoned and or put to death which negates all those rights. So, where do the rights come from?

[Cow Poke]

Rights are constrained by law, Sparko.

Yet they are vigorously protected by due process. You're aware that the first ten amendments to our Constitution are actually referred to as "The Bill of Rights", right?

[Sparko]

Rights are constrained by law, Sparko. You can be imprisoned and or put to death which negates all those rights. So, where do the rights come from?

Do you even bother to read the posts before you respond?. Please go up and read the last page or two. This was addressed before.

Also, the ability to not respect someone's rights or violate them doesn't mean that the right doesn't exist.

[Littlejoe]

May I point out that the phrase "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is found in the Declaration of Independence,

Sure...

not the Constitution, and thus is of essentially no legal weight?

I guess you forgot about the 14th Amendment? Part 1 says:

Amendment XIVSection 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

[JimL]

Yet they are vigorously protected by due process. You're aware that the first ten amendments to our Constitution are actually referred to as "The Bill of Rights", right?

Sure, but those rights are not inalienable if they can be revoked.

[Whateverman]

Sure, but those rights are not inalienable if the can be revoked.

That's correct.

For those too stupid to read a dictionary:

in·al·ien·a·ble

/inˈālēənəb(ə)l/

• unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.
  "freedom of religion, the most inalienable of all human rights"

[JimL]

Do you even bother to read the posts before you respond?. Please go up and read the last page or two. This was addressed before.

Also, the ability to not respect someone's rights or violate them doesn't mean that the right doesn't exist.

Inalienable means can not be taken away. The founders attributed those inherent inalienable rights to the creator. They obviously didn't believe them to be inalienable rights endowed by the creator if possessing them is dependent upon the laws of men.

[Sparko]

Inalienable means can not be taken away. The founders attributed those inherent inalienable rights to the creator. They obviously didn't believe them to be inalienable rights endowed by the creator if possessing them is dependent upon the laws of men.

Even in the bible, God commands capital punishment for certain crimes and allows taking a life in self-defense. So take it up with him.

[JimL]

Even in the bible, God commands capital punishment for certain crimes and allows taking a life in self-defense. So take it up with him.

Well, that's if you believe them to be the words of god, but if you believe them to be the words of the men who actually wrote them, then there is no such thing as god given inalienable rights.

[Sparko]

Well, that's if you believe them to be the words of god, but if you believe them to be the words of the men who actually wrote them, then there is no such thing as god given inalienable rights.

Well you should be glad that the founding fathers believed in such a God and rights, or you wouldn't have them in this country

Jim, if you have a right to be free and someone kidnaps you and keeps you locked in a closet, does that mean you no longer have the right to be free? Hmm?

[JimL]

Well you should be glad that the founding fathers believed in such a God and rights, or you wouldn't have them in this country

Well, they didn't all believe in such a God, but yes, I am glad that both the believers and the non believing founders alike believed in those rights.

Jim,if you have a right to be free and someone kidnaps you and keeps you locked in a closet, does that mean you no longer have the right to be free? Hmm?

IF Sparko, IF. We have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as a belief, as a philosophy, but not as an inherent inalienable birthright. There is no such thing as an inherent inalienable right other than those rights we give to ourselves as a society and those rights are constrained by the laws which also come from men.

[Watermelon]

May I point out that the phrase "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is found in the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution, and thus is of essentially no legal weight?

I believe the point of your post seems to be missed judging from the responses to it so I thought I’ll expand on it since you haven’t responded yet.

The phrase above is a description of natural rights which are universal rights considered unconditionally inherent in all people. This is where the pro life argument is.

The abortion issue is about legal rights. Legal rights are conditional and only exist within the confines of society to each individual to govern their interactions. A fetus currently has no legal rights as they dont exist in society as an individual.

[Whateverman]

We have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as a belief, as a philosophy, but not as an inherent inalienable birthright. There is no such thing as an inherent inalienable right other than those rights we give to ourselves as a society and those rights are constrained by the laws which also come from men.

Bingo!