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Is Everything Racist?

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  • Is Everything Racist?

    I mean really, who is stopping brown and black people from going to parks?

    America's national parks face existential crisis over race

    As millions of Americans escape home quarantine to the great outdoors this summer, they'll venture into parks, campgrounds and forest lands that remain stubborn bastions of self-segregation.

    "The outdoors and public lands suffer from the same systemic racism that the rest of our society does," said Joel Pannell, associate director of the Sierra Club, which is leading an effort to boost diversity in the wilderness and access to natural spaces.

    New government data, shared first with ABC News, shows the country's premier outdoor spaces -- the 419 national parks -- remain overwhelmingly white. Just 23% of visitors to the parks were people of color, the National Park Service found in its most recent 10-year survey; 77% were white. Minorities make up 42% of the U.S. population
    .

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/amer...l_twitter_abcn
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Whites are wealthier on average, and therefore more can afford the time and cost of visiting a National Park. The fact that minorities do less well economically than their white brethren, is because of systemic racism.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

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    • #3
      This is one of those "Okay... and?" stories.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        I mean really, who is stopping brown and black people from going to parks?

        America's national parks face existential crisis over race

        As millions of Americans escape home quarantine to the great outdoors this summer, they'll venture into parks, campgrounds and forest lands that remain stubborn bastions of self-segregation.

        "The outdoors and public lands suffer from the same systemic racism that the rest of our society does," said Joel Pannell, associate director of the Sierra Club, which is leading an effort to boost diversity in the wilderness and access to natural spaces.

        New government data, shared first with ABC News, shows the country's premier outdoor spaces -- the 419 national parks -- remain overwhelmingly white. Just 23% of visitors to the parks were people of color, the National Park Service found in its most recent 10-year survey; 77% were white. Minorities make up 42% of the U.S. population
        .

        https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/amer...l_twitter_abcn
        I'm trying to find out what about this article upsets you. It is quote, unquote, interesting, that a majority of campers are white. And there's nothing wrong with leading a call for increased diversity in the parks and invite those communities out there.

        At least I can't see any problem with campaigning for diversity in the parks.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
          Whites are wealthier on average, and therefore more can afford the time and cost of visiting a National Park. The fact that minorities do less well economically than their white brethren, is because of systemic racism.
          'Systemic racism' seems to be a tautology - "Average black people doing less well economically than average non-black people = systemic racism"

          Why are they doing less well? A: Because of systemic racism

          How do you know that it's because of systemic racism? A: Because they are doing less well.
          ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            Whites are wealthier on average, and therefore more can afford the time and cost of visiting a National Park. The fact that minorities do less well economically than their white brethren, is because of systemic racism.
            That has nothing to do with the parks themselves, which are welcoming to everyone... And Asian and Indian (from India) Americans do better economically than whites - is that because of systemic racism? Latinos do better economically than blacks - is that because of systemic racism?
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
              'Systemic racism' seems to be a tautology - "Average black people doing less well economically than average non-black people = systemic racism"

              Why are they doing less well? A: Because of systemic racism

              How do you know that it's because of systemic racism? A: Because they are doing less well.
              There is no biological reality to the concept of race, it remains entirely a social construction. Therefore any performance differences between those groups are explained in terms of cultural factors. In so far as those cultural differences disadvantages a minority and benefits a majority, it is in fact racism.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                That has nothing to do with the parks themselves, which are welcoming to everyone...
                I'm curious as to what explains that difference.

                And Asian and Indian (from India) Americans do better economically than whites - is that because of systemic racism?
                No, it is good that they're doing well economically. As for why Asian and Indian immigrants in the US are doing better statistically than the norm, I think that can be explained in terms of a selection bias on part of who immigrates, and their descendants getting to benefit from that.

                Both groups are a minority so it is not racism.

                Latinos do better economically than blacks - is that because of systemic racism?
                No, both are a minority.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                  I'm trying to find out what about this article upsets you. It is quote, unquote, interesting, that a majority of campers are white. And there's nothing wrong with leading a call for increased diversity in the parks and invite those communities out there.

                  At least I can't see any problem with campaigning for diversity in the parks.
                  Saying that this is cause by systemic racism is bunk, or that it is an existential crisis over race. I have no problem with getting more people into the wild. I used to help at a camp (Camp Hope) that brought inner city kids up from New York to spend weeks in the woods... Not every has to be defined by race.
                  Last edited by seer; 07-02-2020, 08:04 AM.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                    I'm trying to find out what about this article upsets you. It is quote, unquote, interesting, that a majority of campers are white. And there's nothing wrong with leading a call for increased diversity in the parks and invite those communities out there.

                    At least I can't see any problem with campaigning for diversity in the parks.


                    Why campaign for diversity in parks at all? If people of any colour or lifestyle are free to go there, there is no problem. If some groups of people would like to go, but can't for some reason (e.g. lack of economic resources) then they can get help to make and save money to pursue their interests. Perhaps interested people can form volunteer groups to provide subsidised trips for people that want to go but can't.

                    We don't see people saying that we need more diversity (meaning an exactly balanced representation) in every area of recreation, leisure or sport, do we? So why campaign for something like this? Are there a lot of black people that want to go to national parks, but can't, because racist people won't let them?
                    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                      There is no biological reality to the concept of race, it remains entirely a social construction. Therefore any performance differences between those groups are explained in terms of cultural factors. In so far as those cultural differences disadvantages a minority and benefits a majority, it is in fact racism.
                      racism

                      1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.
                      2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
                      3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
                      Which one of those is it?

                      That there are differences (of all sorts) between average people of different cultural groups does not prove that the differences are due to racism.



                      Off-topic...

                      One of my students just came back for a trip as an exchange student to Denmark, unfortunately she had to return early and suddenly due to the pandemic. However, she loved her time there and says that her host family and the people she met were very welcoming and friendly. Apparently Danish is a difficult language...
                      ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                        I'm curious as to what explains that difference.

                        No, it is good that they're doing well economically. As for why Asian and Indian immigrants in the US are doing better statistically than the norm, I think that can be explained in terms of a selection bias on part of who immigrates, and their descendants getting to benefit from that.

                        Both groups are a minority so it is not racism.

                        No, both are a minority.
                        The point is Leonhard not all economic disparity is due to race. One of the sure markers for ongoing poverty is single parenthood, and since in the inner city you have 70% of households with single parent you may want to look there.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                          [Apparently Danish is a difficult language...
                          Except they all pretty much speak English if memory serves.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            There is no biological reality to the concept of race, it remains entirely a social construction. Therefore any performance differences between those groups are explained in terms of cultural factors. In so far as those cultural differences disadvantages a minority and benefits a majority, it is in fact racism.
                            Or gee, it could be that black people on general are not interested in going to parks and camping as much as white people. Or it could just be a fact of demographics. The population is majority white, so there are a majority of whites in parks. Or demographics. More blacks live in urban areas than in rural ones so they just have a harder time getting to the parks, just like the white people in urban areas do.

                            It doesn't have to be racism. And if there is no such thing as race, then there cannot be any such thing as racism, right?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Except they all pretty much speak English if memory serves.
                              Of course, because Danish is hard!
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment

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