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The Washington Redskins May Finally Change Their Name

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  • #76
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    FIFY n/c

    As I demonstrated in post #69, historically these names were selected to honor Native Americans and that traditionally Native Americans have been among the fiercest opponents to changing their names. No wonder 90% of them don't get upset about the name.

    But white leftist like whag believe that Native Americans just must not be bright enough to respond correctly. That is, how he tells them that they should react. So folks like whag have taken it on themselves to do it for them since it's for their own good.

    Talk about being racist.
    A Christian, no less, pretends that white people invented opposition to disparaging terms for Native Americans. From Wikipedia:

    “ In the 1940s the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) created a campaign to eliminate negative stereotyping of Native American people in the media. Over time, the campaign began to focus on Indian names and mascots in sports.[88] The NCAI maintains that teams with mascots such as the Braves and the Redskins perpetuate negative stereotypes of Native American people, and demean their native traditions and rituals.[89] The NCAI issued a new report in 2013 summarizing opposition to Indian mascots and team names generally, and the Washington Redskins in particular.[90] In the trademark case, the TTAB placed significance on the NCAI opposition, estimating that the organization represented about 30% of the Native American population at the time the trademarks were granted, which met their criteria for a "substantial composite" of Native Americans finding the name disparaging.[91] In its amicus brief filed in the case, the NCAI states that the combined enrollment of its member tribes in 2013 was 1.2 million individuals.[92]

    Many tribal councils have passed resolutions or issued statements regarding their opposition to the name of the Washington Redskins, including the Cherokee and Comanche Nations of Oklahoma, the Inter Tribal Council of Arizona,[93] the Inter-Tribal Council of the Five Civilized Tribes,[94][95] the Oneida Indian Nation (New York),[96] the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe (North Dakota) and the United South and Eastern Tribes (USET).[97] In April 2014, Navajo Nation Council voted in favor of a statement opposing the name of the Washington team, as well as other disparaging references to American Indians by other professional sports franchises.[98] Other Native American groups advocating change include: the Native American Bar Association of DC,[99] the National Caucus of Native American State Legislators,[100] and the Society of American Indian Government Employees.[101]”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wash...me_controversy

    Again, rogue is a Christian going apoplectic on the name change of a sports team. A sports team.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Anit-Irish sentiment is a thing.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment

      [ATTACH=CONFIG]46350[/ATTACH]

      But not quite a “thing” proportional to genocide and Jim Crow.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by whag View Post
        But not quite a “thing” proportional to genocide and Jim Crow.
        So you don't care about the oppression of Irish people?

        Racist.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          So you don't care about the oppression of Irish people?

          Racist.
          Yes, I’m a rabid racist for considering the proportion of Irish oppression, which stopped around the turn of the century, compared to the lingering effects of genocide, chattel slavery, and Jim Crow.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by whag View Post
            I’m a rabid racist
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              Look how shocked I am that an anti-evo creationist just quote mined me.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by whag View Post
                The Irish aren’t so sensitive to racism having never been subjected to genocide or Jim Crow.
                The Cromwellian conquest of Ireland has rightly been likened to genocide in that it killed off something like a third of the population.

                As David Norbrook, Emeritus Fellow of Merton College, Oxford who specializes in literature, politics and historiography in the early modern period, put it in his Writing the English Republic: Poetry, Rhetoric and Politics, 1627–1660:

                "He (Cromwell) laid the foundation for a ruthless programme of resettling the Irish Catholics which amounted to large scale ethnic cleansing".


                Or as Frances Stewart, professor emeritus of development economics and director of the Centre for Research on Inequality, Human Security and Ethnicity (CRISE), University of Oxford, wrote in her War and Underdevelopment: Economic and Social Consequences of Conflict v. 1:

                "Faced with the prospect of an Irish alliance with Charles II, Cromwell carried out a series of massacres to subdue the Irish. Then, once Cromwell had returned to England, the English Commissary, General Henry Ireton, adopted a deliberate policy of crop burning and starvation, which was responsible for the majority of an estimated 600,000 deaths out of a total Irish population of 1,400,000."


                And then there is the professor and Chair of the Department of Political Science at Indiana University–Purdue University Fort Wayne, James M. Lutz, an internationally renown expert on political terrorism, who wrote in his book Global Terrorism:

                "The draconian laws applied by Oliver Cromwell in Ireland were an early version of ethnic cleansing."


                There are a number of other examples that I could cite.

                The treatment of the Irish by the English was a major motivating factor in the American colonies decision to rebel in that they were worried that we were next.

                And the English's reaction to the Potato Famine in the 19th cent. (which led to the massive migration to the U.S.) is yet another example, one in which Charles Rice, professor emeritus of Law at Notre Dame described thusly:

                "the policies pursued by the British government from 1845-50 in Ireland constituted ‘genocide’."


                And when they reached the U.S., they were anything but welcome. "Irish Need Not Apply" signs advertising employment opportunities were not uncommon.


                Awhile back PBS had a series on the immigration of Irish to the U.S. and the blatant discrimination they faced. The part I remember the best was a discussion about the digging of a canal near Washington D.C. and how slave-owners refused to hire out their slaves for the job because the causality rate was way too high and slaves were valuable. So they came up with the idea of hiring the Irish because they figured nobody would care how many of them would die.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  The Cromwellian conquest of Ireland has rightly been likened to genocide in that it killed off something like a third of the population.

                  As David Norbrook, Emeritus Fellow of Merton College, Oxford who specializes in literature, politics and historiography in the early modern period, put it in his Writing the English Republic: Poetry, Rhetoric and Politics, 1627–1660:

                  "He (Cromwell) laid the foundation for a ruthless programme of resettling the Irish Catholics which amounted to large scale ethnic cleansing".


                  Or as Frances Stewart, professor emeritus of development economics and director of the Centre for Research on Inequality, Human Security and Ethnicity (CRISE), University of Oxford, wrote in her War and Underdevelopment: Economic and Social Consequences of Conflict v. 1:

                  "Faced with the prospect of an Irish alliance with Charles II, Cromwell carried out a series of massacres to subdue the Irish. Then, once Cromwell had returned to England, the English Commissary, General Henry Ireton, adopted a deliberate policy of crop burning and starvation, which was responsible for the majority of an estimated 600,000 deaths out of a total Irish population of 1,400,000."


                  And then there is the professor and Chair of the Department of Political Science at Indiana University–Purdue University Fort Wayne, James M. Lutz, an internationally renown expert on political terrorism, who wrote in his book Global Terrorism:

                  "The draconian laws applied by Oliver Cromwell in Ireland were an early version of ethnic cleansing."


                  There are a number of other examples that I could cite.

                  The treatment of the Irish by the English was a major motivating factor in the American colonies decision to rebel in that they were worried that we were next.

                  And the English's reaction to the Potato Famine in the 19th cent. (which led to the massive migration to the U.S.) is yet another example, one in which Charles Rice, professor emeritus of Law at Notre Dame described thusly:

                  "the policies pursued by the British government from 1845-50 in Ireland constituted ‘genocide’."


                  And when they reached the U.S., they were anything but welcome. "Irish Need Not Apply" signs advertising employment opportunities were not uncommon.

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]46351[/ATTACH]

                  Awhile back PBS had a series on the immigration of Irish to the U.S. and the blatant discrimination they faced. The part I remember the best was a discussion about the digging of a canal near Washington D.C. and how slave-owners refused to hire out their slaves for the job because the causality rate was way too high and slaves were valuable. So they came up with the idea of hiring the Irish because they figured nobody would care how many of them would die.
                  A Christian, no less, attempts to equate Irish persecution, with the lingering effects of chattel slavery, Jim Crow, and genocide of Native Americans, then pretends that “leprechaun” is tantamount to common epithets used for Native Americans and blacks.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by whag View Post
                    A Christian, no less, pretends that white people invented opposition to disparaging terms for Native Americans. From Wikipedia:

                    “ In the 1940s the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) created a campaign to eliminate negative stereotyping of Native American people in the media. Over time, the campaign began to focus on Indian names and mascots in sports.[88] The NCAI maintains that teams with mascots such as the Braves and the Redskins perpetuate negative stereotypes of Native American people, and demean their native traditions and rituals.[89] The NCAI issued a new report in 2013 summarizing opposition to Indian mascots and team names generally, and the Washington Redskins in particular.[90] In the trademark case, the TTAB placed significance on the NCAI opposition, estimating that the organization represented about 30% of the Native American population at the time the trademarks were granted, which met their criteria for a "substantial composite" of Native Americans finding the name disparaging.[91] In its amicus brief filed in the case, the NCAI states that the combined enrollment of its member tribes in 2013 was 1.2 million individuals.[92]

                    Many tribal councils have passed resolutions or issued statements regarding their opposition to the name of the Washington Redskins, including the Cherokee and Comanche Nations of Oklahoma, the Inter Tribal Council of Arizona,[93] the Inter-Tribal Council of the Five Civilized Tribes,[94][95] the Oneida Indian Nation (New York),[96] the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe (North Dakota) and the United South and Eastern Tribes (USET).[97] In April 2014, Navajo Nation Council voted in favor of a statement opposing the name of the Washington team, as well as other disparaging references to American Indians by other professional sports franchises.[98] Other Native American groups advocating change include: the Native American Bar Association of DC,[99] the National Caucus of Native American State Legislators,[100] and the Society of American Indian Government Employees.[101]”

                    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wash...me_controversy

                    Again, rogue is a Christian going apoplectic on the name change of a sports team. A sports team.
                    The team was originally named the Boston Braves but was changed to the Boston Redskins after they moved from Braves Field to Fenway Park. The reason given at the time for selecting the name Redskins was to honor the team’s coach, William "Lone Star" Dietz, who was thought to be of Sioux descent (although he might have actually been a faker[1]) along with several Native Americans on the team.




                    1. If so this sort of deception seems to be something of a tradition among folks who have moved to Massachusetts.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by whag View Post
                      A Christian, no less, attempts to equate Irish persecution, with the lingering effects of chattel slavery, Jim Crow, and genocide of Native Americans, then pretends that “leprechaun” is tantamount to common epithets used for Native Americans and blacks.
                      This is your petulant childish way of admitting that once again you face planted when you claimed

                      The Irish aren’t so sensitive to racism having never been subjected to genocide or Jim Crow


                      The fact is they faced genocide not once but twice and those that left Ireland for the U.S. were treated worse than those held in slavery being regarded as worthless and completely disposable.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        This is your petulant childish way of admitting that once again you face planted when you claimed

                        The Irish aren’t so sensitive to racism having never been subjected to genocide or Jim Crow


                        The fact is they faced genocide not once but twice and those that left Ireland for the U.S. were treated worse than those held in slavery being regarded as worthless and completely disposable.
                        As a Trumper, you should look up the word “petulant.” You might consider it instructive.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Point of correction: The Chiefs are not named after a real Native American tribe. The name honors former mayor H. Roe Bartle, who was a Chief in the Tribe of Mic-O-Say, which is basically a cosplay version of an Indian Tribe at the Bartle Scout Reservation in Missouri (something I was inducted into a long time ago).
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man
                            I think, rather, it's concern about caving in to the unreasonable demands of "cancel culture".
                            Quote marks is correct. This is not cancel culture. A lot of these terms are getting stretch marks from being applied to things way beyond their scope.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by whag View Post
                              It’s an opportunity to rebrand. It’s silly to cling to a name.
                              A classic (politically) conservative trait is preference for tradition, and resistance to change.

                              Clinging is what they do.

                              ps. no, not all conservatives are like this. The loudest most definitely are, though.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                People of Irish decent aren't freaking out over Notre Dame calling their team the Fighting Irish which plays on the stereotype of Irish being belligerent and ready to brawl over virtually anything.
                                In my view, a rather important difference between that and the teams named after Native American concepts is that Notre Dame, who picked the name, was heavily Irish.

                                Comment

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