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Hydroxychloroquine: Not so useless after all

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  • #16
    Originally posted by whag View Post
    You, you dummy.
    Um... okay...
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
      Not necessarily, no. From the article:

      Source: Detroit News article

      Zervos cautioned against extrapolating the results for treatment outside hospital settings and without further study.

      © Copyright Original Source



      Source: Detroit News article

      Doctors at Michigan Medicine, the University of Michigan's health system, remain steadfast in their decision not to use hydroxychloroquine on coronavirus patients, which they stopped using in mid-March after their own early tracking of the treatment found little benefit to patients with some serious side effects.
      Michigan's largest system of hospitals, Southfield-based Beaumont Health, also stopped using the decades-old anti-malarial drug as a coronavirus treatment after deciding it was ineffective.

      St. Joseph Mercy health system has also backed away from the treatment. The system has St. Joseph hospitals in Ann Arbor, Chelsea, Howell, Livonia and Pontiac, as well as the Mercy Health hospitals in Grand Rapids, Muskegon and Shelby.

      Heidi Pillen, director of pharmacy at Beaumont Health, confirmed on Thursday that the health system is not using hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 patients.

      © Copyright Original Source



      The FDA already came out and said the risks outweighed the benefits. If they're wrong, then this will come out in the data, but so far the data have supported their decision.
      It is funny how people accepted this claim by the FDA. This is not a new drug with unknown side-effects. It is a medicine that people have used proactively to avoid malaria when traveling.

      The statement about using outside of hospitals ... well that is the goal. avoid having to go to the hospital.

      The Zelenko protocol is especially intended to use in the early signs of coronavirus. It might be right for hospitals, in severe cases, not to rely solely on this protocol in late stages.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
        It is funny how people accepted this claim by the FDA.
        It's not funny in the least.

        The FDA is the authority on this issue, and so far, they've nixed hydroxychloroquine as a COVID-19 therapy. Maybe this study will change their minds, but the fact is that the FDA has access to more than one study's worth of data. I'm pretty sure it's going to take more than this one to make a difference.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
          The FDA is the authority on this issue...
          No, it's a government agency with its own agenda.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            No, it's a government agency with its own agenda.
            And? It's still the authority on the issue.

            If you don't like it, take it up with Trump.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
              It's not funny in the least.

              The FDA is the authority on this issue, and so far, they've nixed hydroxychloroquine as a COVID-19 therapy. Maybe this study will change their minds, but the fact is that the FDA has access to more than one study's worth of data. I'm pretty sure it's going to take more than this one to make a difference.
              And you will give your life for that claim. You are mixing the concepts of authority. They are maybe a government "authority" to represent the government view however they are not a scientific authority -- but are only a consumer of scientific studies. They can make stupid mistakes on this and cause much harm because of this.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                And you will give your life for that claim. You are mixing the concepts of authority. They are maybe a government "authority" to represent the government view however they are not a scientific authority
                Yeah. They are.

                Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                but are only a consumer of scientific studies.
                You know that scientists routinely consume scientific studies, right?

                Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                They can make stupid mistakes on this and cause much harm because of this.
                Everyone can. Everyone can make stupid mistakes and cause much harm: scientists, basketball players, little kids, politicians, etc.

                I don't think you actually understand how a drug goes from someone doing research in a lab to sitting in a bottle on a shelf in CVS. There's a massive scientific/statistical/regulatory process for getting this done, and the FDA is the final authority on it all. They're staffed by scientists, and make decisions which regulate what biotech firms and hospitals can do. Nothing you've said credibly calls this simple fact into question.
                Last edited by Whateverman; 07-04-2020, 03:26 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                  Yeah. They are.


                  You know that scientists routinely consume scientific studies, right?


                  Everyone can. Everyone can make stupid mistakes and cause much harm: scientists, basketball players, little kids, politicians, etc.

                  I don't think you actually understand how a drug goes from someone doing research in a lab to sitting in a bottle on a shelf in CVS. There's a massive scientific/statistical process for getting this done, and the FDA is the final authority on it all. They're staffed by scientists, and make decisions which regulate what biotech firms and hospitals can do. Nothing you've said credibly calls this simple fact into question.
                  ok. die for what you believe in. everyone has a cause they will die for. you have made the FDA reputation your cause.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                    ok. die for what you believe in. everyone has a cause they will die for. you have made the FDA reputation your cause.
                    Not really, no. I'm just doing my best to dispel ignorance where I find it.

                    I worked as a scientist for 7 years, and then I worked as a software engineer for a company that managed FDA drug and device trials. I actually have some experience with the thing you're trying to sound authoritative on. You simply do not understand what you're talking about.

                    One study does not a safe/effective drug make.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                      Not really, no. I'm just doing my best to dispel ignorance where I find it.

                      I worked as a scientist for 7 years, and then I worked as a software engineer for a company that managed FDA drug and device trials. I actually have some experience with the thing you're trying to sound authoritative on. You simply do not understand what you're talking about.

                      One study does not a safe/effective drug make.
                      I'm just saying what I have learned from the situation. There has been focused effort to promote an unavailable/untested vaccine over against a simple and inexpensive treatment. Fauci has been a spokesman against the simple and inexpensive treatment because he and others in government are benefactors of vaccines they can patent.

                      It is good that you were involved in possibly valid drug and device trials. It would be interesting to hear which trials were done through that company. It is too bad that people of good reputation get blemished because of groups with bad reputations.

                      We already know there was disinformation by groups who said the medicine was unsafe. That declaration went against 50 -80 years of evidence of its safe use. Of course there are exceptions where a treatment or injection is not safe for a person of a certain condition. But the FDA just testified against itself in rejecting this wholesale. And they need to fess up -- to hold any credibility.
                      Last edited by mikewhitney; 07-04-2020, 03:57 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                        And?
                        It proves the dangers of trusting our well-being to the decisions of regulatory agencies run by unelected bureaucrats.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                          The FDA is the authority on this issue
                          No, it's a government agency with its own agenda.
                          And?
                          It proves the dangers of trusting our well-being to the decisions of regulatory agencies run by unelected bureaucrats.
                          Your opinion doesn't prove anything. It's your opinion that the FDA is a federal agency with its own "agenda", and that doesn't prove there's anything dangerous about trusting it.

                          You trust the FDA each and every single time you take medicine of any kind: internal, topical, etc. The last time you took a few aspirin for a headache, you trusted the FDA. You and your family and your friends have been trusting the FDA almost since you were born.
                          Last edited by Whateverman; 07-04-2020, 05:07 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                            Your opinion doesn't prove anything. It's your opinion that the FDA is a federal agency with its own "agenda", and that doesn't prove there's anything dangerous about trusting it.

                            You trust the FDA each and every single time you take medicine of any kind: internal, topical, etc. The last time you took a few aspirin for a headache, you trusted the FDA. You and your family and your friends have been trusting the FDA almost since you were born.
                            It's the manufacturers and doctors I'm putting my trust in, not the FDA.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              It's the manufacturers and doctors I'm putting my trust in, not the FDA.
                              Manufacturers and doctors don't make the drugs you take, and they don't establish whether those drugs are safe or not.

                              The FDA does. So do pharmaceutical companies, who rely upon the FDA to ensure their compounds wont get them sued out of business.

                              You trust the FDA implicitly.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                It's the manufacturers and doctors I'm putting my trust in, not the FDA.
                                Big surprise that MM trusts big pharma.

                                Comment

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