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Thread: COVID deaths still declining

  1. #281
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    You are aware there is ample scientific evidence of asymptomatic transmission.
    And yet the sources you link to conflate asymptomatic with pre-symptomatic when those are two different conditions. Even the WHO tried to muddy the issues after clearly admitting that asymptomatic transmission was rare.

    https://www.foxnews.com/health/who-o...sion-very-rare

    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
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    Than a fool in the eyes of God


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  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    And yet the sources you link to conflate asymptomatic with pre-symptomatic when those are two different conditions. Even the WHO tried to muddy the issues after clearly admitting that asymptomatic transmission was rare.

    https://www.foxnews.com/health/who-o...sion-very-rare

    The who thing was walked back immediately. It was a mistake in communication.

    And no - these sources do not conflate them, nor are they ignorant of the difference. You just don't read very well.
    They actually do, in fact, explicitly differentiate between them depending on the paper you are reading.

    Consider:

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...84118220300402


    Source: above

    Previous reports revealed that there are asymptomatic patients infected with SARS-CoV-2.7,8,22 These patients can spread the virus and may represent a population that can be easily neglected in epidemic prevention. Therefore, it is important to identify asymptomatic patients with COVID-19. Since these patients are asymptomatic, careful monitoring of the natural course of the disease and contact history may only identify them. Based on the current data, we do not know whether these patients are only asymptomatic initially after contracting the disease or if they are asymptomatic throughout the course of the disease.

    © Copyright Original Source




    or


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7271011/


    Source: above

    Asymptomatic people with SARS-CoV-2 infection are of great concern as they undermine control interventions that rely on identifying symptomatic cases. However, current reports of asymptomatic infections were mostly cross-sectional case reports [[1], [2], [3], [4], [5]]. Do they develop symptoms later? Is an asymptomatic period a part of the natural course of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), or a chronic condition? Is the asymptomatic patient in an incubation period or a subclinical infection, or are they a chronic asymptomatic carrier of SARS-CoV-2 like Typhoid Mary? These questions are of great significance for understanding the spectrum, natural history and epidemiology of COVID-19. Therefore, we followed up virologically confirmed COVID-19 patients in Shanghai Public Health Centre who had no subjective symptoms on admission.

    © Copyright Original Source



    The points made here are A) they do in fact differentiate them B) it doesn't matter in terms of UNKNOWING transmission of the disease which case is being represented in the data. C) regardless of which kind or asymptomatic transmission it is, the effect of masks on hindering it is the same.

    Oh - there is one more point we can make. This distinction you are hammering on in terms of how the word 'asymptomatic' is used isn't something that is consistently part of the scientific literature, it's a diversion of your own manufacture used to play semantic games arguing on this site.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-15-2020 at 12:31 PM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  3. Amen Whateverman amen'd this post.
  4. #283
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    So why are deaths rates not going up despite the spike in positive cases? Maybe because there really is no spike in positive cases...

    After FOX 35 News noticed errors in the state's report on positivity rates, the Florida Department of Health said that some laboratories have not been reporting negative test result data to the state.

    Countless labs have reported a 100 percent positivity rate, which means every single person tested was positive. Other labs had very high positivity rates. FOX 35 News found that testing sites like one local Centra Care reported that 83 people were tested and all tested positive. Then, NCF Diagnostics in Alachua reported 88 percent of tests were positive.

    How could that be? FOX 35 News investigated these astronomical numbers, contacting every local location mentioned in the report.

    The report showed that Orlando Health had a 98 percent positivity rate. However, when FOX 35 News contacted the hospital, they confirmed errors in the report. Orlando Health's positivity rate is only 9.4 percent, not 98 percent as in the report.

    The report also showed that the Orlando Veteran’s Medical Center had a positivity rate of 76 percent. A spokesperson for the VA told FOX 35 News on Tuesday that this does not reflect their numbers and that the positivity rate for the center is actually 6 percent.

    FOX 35 News went on to speak with the Florida Department of Health on Tuesday. They confirmed that although private and public laboratories are required to report positive and negative results to the state immediately, some have not. Specifically, they said that some smaller, private labs were not reporting negative test result data to the state.

    https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fo...vid-19-results
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  5. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  6. #284
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    So why are deaths rates not going up despite the spike in positive cases? Maybe because there really is no spike in positive cases...

    After FOX 35 News noticed errors in the state's report on positivity rates, the Florida Department of Health said that some laboratories have not been reporting negative test result data to the state.

    Countless labs have reported a 100 percent positivity rate, which means every single person tested was positive. Other labs had very high positivity rates. FOX 35 News found that testing sites like one local Centra Care reported that 83 people were tested and all tested positive. Then, NCF Diagnostics in Alachua reported 88 percent of tests were positive.

    How could that be? FOX 35 News investigated these astronomical numbers, contacting every local location mentioned in the report.

    The report showed that Orlando Health had a 98 percent positivity rate. However, when FOX 35 News contacted the hospital, they confirmed errors in the report. Orlando Health's positivity rate is only 9.4 percent, not 98 percent as in the report.

    The report also showed that the Orlando Veteran’s Medical Center had a positivity rate of 76 percent. A spokesperson for the VA told FOX 35 News on Tuesday that this does not reflect their numbers and that the positivity rate for the center is actually 6 percent.

    FOX 35 News went on to speak with the Florida Department of Health on Tuesday. They confirmed that although private and public laboratories are required to report positive and negative results to the state immediately, some have not. Specifically, they said that some smaller, private labs were not reporting negative test result data to the state.

    https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fo...vid-19-results
    A word of advice: look deeper than the surface and stop following along with conspiracy nuttery:

    A) death rates are rising:

    Daily Deaths US 07142020.jpg

    B) care of patients has improved with time - driving mortality down (thankfully)

    C) The demographics of the sick population has shifted toward younger victims driving mortality down (perhaps just temporarily)
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  7. Amen Whateverman amen'd this post.
  8. #285
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    A word of advice: look deeper than the surface and stop following along with conspiracy nuttery...
    It's "conspiracy nuttery" when a news station finfs copious evidence that positive China flu cases throughout Florida were being vastly over-reported?

    Tell me another one, like how asymptomatic (as opposed to pre-symptomatic) people can spread the Wuhan virus when we know this is, in fact, a rare occurrence.

    Next you're going to tell us that ordinary cloth can stop the spread of disease. Oh, wait, you already have!
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  9. #286
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    The who thing was walked back immediately. It was a mistake in communication.

    And no - these sources do not conflate them, nor are they ignorant of the difference. You just don't read very well.
    They actually do, in fact, explicitly differentiate between them depending on the paper you are reading.

    Consider:

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...84118220300402


    Source: above

    Previous reports revealed that there are asymptomatic patients infected with SARS-CoV-2.7,8,22 These patients can spread the virus and may represent a population that can be easily neglected in epidemic prevention. Therefore, it is important to identify asymptomatic patients with COVID-19. Since these patients are asymptomatic, careful monitoring of the natural course of the disease and contact history may only identify them. Based on the current data, we do not know whether these patients are only asymptomatic initially after contracting the disease or if they are asymptomatic throughout the course of the disease.

    © Copyright Original Source




    or


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7271011/


    Source: above

    Asymptomatic people with SARS-CoV-2 infection are of great concern as they undermine control interventions that rely on identifying symptomatic cases. However, current reports of asymptomatic infections were mostly cross-sectional case reports [[1], [2], [3], [4], [5]]. Do they develop symptoms later? Is an asymptomatic period a part of the natural course of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), or a chronic condition? Is the asymptomatic patient in an incubation period or a subclinical infection, or are they a chronic asymptomatic carrier of SARS-CoV-2 like Typhoid Mary? These questions are of great significance for understanding the spectrum, natural history and epidemiology of COVID-19. Therefore, we followed up virologically confirmed COVID-19 patients in Shanghai Public Health Centre who had no subjective symptoms on admission.

    © Copyright Original Source



    The points made here are A) they do in fact differentiate them B) it doesn't matter in terms of UNKNOWING transmission of the disease which case is being represented in the data. C) regardless of which kind or asymptomatic transmission it is, the effect of masks on hindering it is the same.

    Oh - there is one more point we can make. This distinction you are hammering on in terms of how the word 'asymptomatic' is used isn't something that is consistently part of the scientific literature, it's a diversion of your own manufacture used to play semantic games arguing on this site.
    Yeah, like I said, they conflate "asymptomatic" with "pre-symptomatic". Case in point: the one paragraph refers to "asymptomatic infections" and then pulls an about face and asks, "Do they develop symptoms later?" meaning they're not actually asymptomatic but pre-symptomatic!
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. #287
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Yeah, like I said, they conflate "asymptomatic" with "pre-symptomatic". Case in point: the one paragraph refers to "asymptomatic infections" and then pulls an about face and asks, "Do they develop symptoms later?" meaning they're not actually asymptomatic but pre-symptomatic!
    Clearly there is nothing that can heal your (clearly willful) ignorance. "asymptomatic" as used in the paper clearly refers to state at a certain point in time and is not used to necessarily define the entire course of the disease in an individual. Given they are Ph.D's and you have shown yourself clueless over and over again in these threads wrt the scientific disiplines, arguing the point further would be a complete waste of time.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-15-2020 at 03:25 PM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  11. Amen Roy amen'd this post.
  12. #288
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    And other "some" are those of us who have recovered from it and are more than likely no longer carriers.

    So, because "some" are, then ALL must act like they are.
    No, because "some" are, they must act as if "some" are they don't know which ones.
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  13. #289
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It's "conspiracy nuttery" when a news station finfs copious evidence that positive China flu cases throughout Florida were being vastly over-reported?
    It's not just "conspiracy nuttery" but blatant lying or blithering idiocy when the news station actually found that negative cases were being under-reported:

    "Specifically, they said that some smaller, private labs were not reporting negative test result data to the state."

    And death rates are going up, and have been for a week. That's another blatant lie or blithering idiocy.

    So is this:
    Tell me another one, like how asymptomatic (as opposed to pre-symptomatic) people can spread the Wuhan virus when we know this is, in fact, a rare occurrence.
    Pre-symptomatic people are asymptomatic.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.

  14. Amen oxmixmudd, Whateverman amen'd this post.
  15. #290
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    It's not just "conspiracy nuttery" but blatant lying or blithering idiocy when the news station actually found that negative cases were being under-reported:

    "Specifically, they said that some smaller, private labs were not reporting negative test result data to the state."

    And death rates are going up, and have been for a week. That's another blatant lie or blithering idiocy.

    So is this:
    Pre-symptomatic people are asymptomatic.
    Robert Guaderrama, the reporter who broke the case noted that some labs have not reported any negative Chicom coronavirus results and only reported the positive results. I think that counts as "negative cases were being under-reported." As he later stated during an interview with Laura Ingraham:

    looking into the breakdown of test labs, I quickly noticed astronomical positivity rates. Now, mind you, Florida's COVID-19 rate is just under 11%. But dozens of labs report as having 100% positivity. Some only reported positive cases. The negative column, completely blank. So I asked myself, how can 100% of people testing at both sites test positive?

    I reached out to several major hospitals in our area, Orlando Health and the Orlando VA, confirming errors in their numbers on the report. So after several requests for comment, today the Florida Department of Health released the statement reading in part:

    "In recent days, the department noticed that some smaller, private labs weren't reporting negative test result data. The department immediately began working with those labs to ensure that all resorts to results were being reported in order to provide comprehensive and transparent data." These labs are required by the state to report all test results.


    The pertinent parts are bolded.

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