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Thread: COVID deaths still declining

  1. #421
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    According to the NIH factsheet anosmia is associated with an excess of zinc, not a deficiency. Mikewhitney is basically saying that people with symptoms of zinc poisoning should take more zinc.

    Morons like him are getting people killed.
    Your link is a bit useful. Stoic made a correction to your conclusion. I had thought Zinc was a metal to be cautious with. The main problem could be when someone swallows a coin.

    I'm wondering if recommended Zinc levels in nasal sprays could occur too readily ... or people just use too much.

  2. #422
    tWebber Whateverman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    The part that you quoted has no research studies within it
    It has ALL STUDIES within it; all studies which had been submitted for review as part of the HCQ approval for emergency authorization.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    so I'm not sure how you relied on that.
    That's because you don't actually understand this subject you're endlessly posting about.

    You haven't posted a single study here. Not once. What you've posted are reports/articles about the studies, or (less frequently) incomplete distillations of the study's data. You don't actually understand any of them in anything more than a superficial manner, which is why you trying to sound like you understand this better than everyone else here is pretty amusing :)
    I can solve the problem of evil without interfering with anyone's free will. So can your God, but he refuses. This is why I'm His moral superior.

  3. #423
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whateverman View Post
    It has ALL STUDIES within it; all studies which had been submitted for review as part of the HCQ approval for emergency authorization.


    That's because you don't actually understand this subject you're endlessly posting about.

    You haven't posted a single study here. Not once. What you've posted are reports/articles about the studies, or (less frequently) incomplete distillations of the study's data. You don't actually understand any of them in anything more than a superficial manner, which is why you trying to sound like you understand this better than everyone else here is pretty amusing :)
    I think your eyesight is weird ... you are seeing more studies in the text you posted than I saw in your copied text. The important thing, however, is to get updated dated instead of 45 day old information.

    Ok. Here's the other thread where I posted a study: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...420#post770420

    The study pdf is https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...852v1.full.pdf

    The c9study.com has the summaries and more detail. It still is a good place to start because it summarizes which studies show HCQ as effective.
    Last edited by mikewhitney; Yesterday at 11:16 AM.

  4. #424
    tWebber Whateverman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Whateverman View Post
    You haven't posted a single study here. Not once. What you've posted are reports/articles about the studies, or (less frequently) incomplete distillations of the study's data. You don't actually understand any of them in anything more than a superficial manner, which is why you trying to sound like you understand this better than everyone else here is pretty amusing :)
    The study pdf is https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...852v1.full.pdf
    That's not a study. Did you actually read it? Here's the text at the top of the page:



    Like I said, that's an article / report about a study.

    You did not read or post the actual study.

    Thanks for supporting my claim for me.
    I can solve the problem of evil without interfering with anyone's free will. So can your God, but he refuses. This is why I'm His moral superior.

  5. #425
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whateverman View Post
    That's not a study. Did you actually read it? Here's the text at the top of the page:



    Like I said, that's an article / report about a study.

    You did not read or post the actual study.

    Thanks for supporting my claim for me.
    Your desperation and delusion is strong. You really are grasping at straws. How is that not a study? It may be in a preliminary form. However, the data is not going to change. They may change a few things to make it prettier. They may have submitted to a journal and awaiting approval.

    Certainly now... this is more specific of a study than you have provided for discussion.

  6. #426
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    Your desperation and delusion is strong. You really are grasping at straws. How is that not a study? It may be in a preliminary form. However, the data is not going to change. They may change a few things to make it prettier. They may have submitted to a journal and awaiting approval.
    Maybe, but it is outdated, unpublished?, and I cited a more comprehensive review of all the research, and the best that can be said is that has some success when used with other medicines and methods. No research whatsoever has shown it has preventive capability.

    Certainly now... this is more specific of a study than you have provided for discussion.
    I provided an extensive review of most of the research and you have failed to acknowledge it.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
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    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

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  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Maybe, but it is outdated, unpublished?, and I cited a more comprehensive review of all the research, and the best that can be said is that has some success when used with other medicines and methods. No research whatsoever has shown it has preventive capability.

    I provided an extensive review of most of the research and you have failed to acknowledge it.
    I'm lost. Are we agreeing about the success with the Zelenko protocol for treating those with coronavirus? What is the difference between preventative and immediate treatment upon symptoms of the coronavirus? You may be splitting hairs here.

    The review must have been so impressive that no one remembers the great stuff you found. Are you talking about medpage website again? You have not yet mentioned any specific study for examination so it is not clear what you are highlighting from any studies. The benefit of the c19study.com is that the treatment studies are listed out. But you have not really debated on anything specific ... you maybe just say you like some article that doesn't give much detail. You have not given any thing specific to respond to.

  8. #428
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    I'm lost. Are we agreeing about the success with the Zelenko protocol for treating those with coronavirus? What is the difference between preventative and immediate treatment upon symptoms of the coronavirus? You may be splitting hairs here.
    Clear and specific difference. Preventive or prophilactic treatment ranslates into ABSOLUTELY NO INFECTION. The treatment protocal was for those tested as infected. It still remains that Zelenko's research lacks the medical protocal that later studies had, and all of them need to considered when evaluating the results as my reference did.

    The review must have been so impressive that no one remembers the great stuff you found. Are you talking about medpage website again? You have not yet mentioned any specific study for examination so it is not clear what you are highlighting from any studies. The benefit of the c19study.com is that the treatment studies are listed out. But you have not really debated on anything specific ... you maybe just say you like some article that doesn't give much detail. You have not given any thing specific to respond to.
    No problem you can still reference it at any time you wish to refer to it.. The problem is you are avoiding it. No one else has denied reading it, nor objected to the content. It was comprehensive in the references it provided.

    I thought it would be appropriate here to repost this, because of some posting incomplete and misleading research, and name droping without the details to support their agenda.

    Risch is a competent scientis, and yes there have been some positive results of using HCQ in combination with azithromycin.The article goes over the different research, and the limited positive results. It empasises that most of the previous reasearch is without control and good randomized studies. Severual research published with a good research design showed decidedly negative results,

    Name droping without the details is not an adegaute response,


    Source: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87844



    In the Newsweek editorial and in the later journal submission, both of which were published following three highly publicized randomized trials that reported no benefit from HCQ, Risch did not address or even acknowledge them.

    In a statement posted on Yale's website, Sten Vermund, MD, PhD, dean of the Yale School of Public Health, distanced himself from Risch's papers.

    "My role as Dean is not to suppress the work of the faculty, but rather, to support the academic freedom of our faculty, whether it is in the mainstream of thinking or is contrarian," Vermund wrote.

    "Yale-affiliated physicians used HCQ early in the response to COVID-19, but it is only used rarely at present due to evidence that it is ineffective and potentially risky."

    © Copyright Original Source



    I can provide specific references to the research cited in this article if you need, and cannot look them up yourself.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; Yesterday at 04:41 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  9. #429
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Clear and specific difference. Preventive or prophilactic treatment ranslates into ABSOLUTELY NO INFECTION. The treatment protocal was for those tested as infected. It still remains that Zelenko's research lacks the medical protocal that later studies had, and all of them need to considered when evaluating the results as my reference did.



    No problem you can still reference it at any time you wish to refer to it.. The problem is you are avoiding it. No one else has denied reading it, nor objected to the content. It was comprehensive in the references it provided.

    I thought it would be appropriate here to repost this, because of some posting incomplete and misleading research, and name droping without the details to support their agenda.

    Risch is a competent scientis, and yes there have been some positive results of using HCQ in combination with azithromycin.The article goes over the different research, and the limited positive results. It empasises that most of the previous reasearch is without control and good randomized studies. Severual research published with a good research design showed decidedly negative results,

    Name droping without the details is not an adegaute response,


    Source: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87844



    In the Newsweek editorial and in the later journal submission, both of which were published following three highly publicized randomized trials that reported no benefit from HCQ, Risch did not address or even acknowledge them.

    In a statement posted on Yale's website, Sten Vermund, MD, PhD, dean of the Yale School of Public Health, distanced himself from Risch's papers.

    "My role as Dean is not to suppress the work of the faculty, but rather, to support the academic freedom of our faculty, whether it is in the mainstream of thinking or is contrarian," Vermund wrote.

    "Yale-affiliated physicians used HCQ early in the response to COVID-19, but it is only used rarely at present due to evidence that it is ineffective and potentially risky."

    © Copyright Original Source



    I can provide specific references to the research cited in this article if you need, and cannot look them up yourself.
    Funny that you complain about name dropping and then you drop Vermund's name with the inconsequential statement about Risch -- an opinion statement or a vague suggestion that there are studies about HCQ suddenly becoming risky after 60 years or so. I'll probably go ahead and check out the rest of what is said in case I missed something.

    A randomized double-blind study is not absolutely required but still is better -- when testing the proper protocol. So far, though, we have not seen the proper protocol being tested in these sort of studies.

  10. #430
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    Funny that you complain about name dropping and then you drop Vermund's name with the inconsequential statement about Risch -- an opinion statement or a vague suggestion that there are studies about HCQ suddenly becoming risky after 60 years or so. I'll probably go ahead and check out the rest of what is said in case I missed something.

    A randomized double-blind study is not absolutely required but still is better -- when testing the proper protocol. So far, though, we have not seen the proper protocol being tested in these sort of studies.
    No name droping for name droping's sack. I refered to all the research, and when more is availble I will refer to it. The consensus is that HCQ has some benifit when used in combination with other drugs andtreatments, noit is not a significant cure, and again not there is no research that it is a preventative drug.

    Again HCQ is well known and used internationally, and again with limited positive results.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; Yesterday at 07:03 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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