COVID deaths still declining

[Mountain Man]

Basically, due to the fact the majority of people over 50 have at least one of your listed co-morbidities, you are saying being over 50 is a 'co-morbidity'.

It's a brain dead argument MM. Covid isn't less deadly just because it disproportionately kills older people People over 50 are still people, they still want to live, their deaths are still tragedies, especially when a simple vaccination is all that is required to significantly reduce covid's mortality.

The point is, a large number of those people didn't actually die from the China flu itself, and according to the director of the CDC, the vaccine really wouldn't have benefited them anyway.

[Stoic]

That was but a small drop in the bucket of incentive abuses...



Nice try though. The ones in bold is especially the one I'd like to see a study disproving if you can kindly link me to it.

Don't really need a scientific study to refute them.

"No, hospitals don’t get more money when they list COVID-19 as a patient’s cause of death" -- source

"Dr. Wayne mentioned that the order of causes of death does not affect the amount hospitals or medical examiners receive, so there is no financial incentive for including COVID-19 on a death certificate. " -- source

It's a little hard to find sources showing that coroners don't get extra money for a covid-19 diagnosis, but I attribute that to the fact that so few are claiming that they do.

[Stoic]

It's what she was clearly implying. Here's the exact quote: "The overwhelming number of deaths, over 75 percent, occurred in people who had at least four comorbidities. So really, these were people who were unwell to begin with." In other words, they don't really count as China flu deaths because they "were unwell to begin with", so the vaccine didn't fail, those people already had one foot in the grave.

A more complete quote:

You know, really important study, if I may just summarize it. A study of 1.2 million people who were vaccinated between December and October. And demonstrated that severe disease occurred in about 0.015% of the people who were -- received their primary series -- and death in 0.003% of those people. The overwhelming number of deaths, over 75%, occurred in people who had at least four comorbidities. So really, these are people who were unwell to begin with. And yes, really encouraging news in the context of omicron. This means not only just to get your primary series but to get your booster series. And yes, we're really encouraged by these results.

She's saying vaccinated people are very unlikely to die in any case, and even 4 times less likely to die if they don't have comorbidities that would make you more likely to have severe covid-19.

So like I said, apply that same reasoning to the 94% who died from comorbidities and see where it takes you.

You are comparing apples to oranges. What Walensky called comorbidities are actually risk factors that would make you more susceptible to severe covid-19, such as being over 65 years old, having Delta, immunosuppression, chronic pulmonary, liver, kidney, or cardiac disease, etc., while the comorbidities counted by the CDC include those caused by covid-19, such as ARDS, pulmonary failure, cardiac arrest, etc., and don't include things like being over 65, or having Delta.

All persons with severe outcomes had at least one of these risk factors, and 77.8% of those who died had four or more risk factors.

source

[oxmixmudd]

The point is, a large number of those people didn't actually die from the China flu itself, and according to the director of the CDC, the vaccine really wouldn't have benefited them anyway.

That is even more brain dead. They died because they got covid. The covid symptoms on average are worse for people with a co morbidity, but it was still covid that killed them.

[Roy]

Hey, man, take it up with the CDC. I'm just the messenger.

The CDC said that most COVID fatalities had co-morbidities. They did not say that those fatalities "actually had other causes". That was your claim, not theirs. A claim that you now seem to realise is completely indefensible, but rather than retract it you try to pass the blame for your untruth onto the CDC.

[rogue06]

It is "covid misinformation" when it goes against peer reviewed science.

Can you produce any examples of these "peer reviewed science" that rebuts that there was monetary incentivization for diagnosing deaths as resulting from Covid -- or was this an attempt to bluff and bluster your way through something that doesn't fit your narrative?

[rogue06]

Don't really need a scientific study to refute them.

"No, hospitals don’t get more money when they list COVID-19 as a patient’s cause of death" -- source

"Dr. Wayne mentioned that the order of causes of death does not affect the amount hospitals or medical examiners receive, so there is no financial incentive for including COVID-19 on a death certificate. " -- source

It's a little hard to find sources showing that coroners don't get extra money for a covid-19 diagnosis, but I attribute that to the fact that so few are claiming that they do.

So... nothing but unsupported claims denying what the federal government set up exists.

Strike one.

And if you will only be satisfied if a coroner (note, most deaths don't go to the coroner's office) claiming that he is defrauding the government it is safe to dismiss your objection in the same manner you tend to dismiss things

Carpe Hand Wave.gif

[Stoic]

So... nothing but unsupported claims denying what the federal government set up exists.

Note that your claim about what the government set up is unsupported.

[Mountain Man]

Obama tests positive for the China flu, says, "It’s a reminder to get vaccinated if you haven’t already."

Only a liberal would think that catching a disease you're vaccinated against is a good reminder to get vaccinated against that disease.

[Sparko]

I saw this comic this morning and it reminded me of the people in this thread (on both sides)

1909c0c0675e013a9664005056a9545d.jpg

[rogue06]

Note that your claim about what the government set up is unsupported.

Being either honest or accurate were never your strong points.

Don't forget, in some cases the government had monetarily incentivized positive diagnoses, such as when coronavirus relief legislation created a 20% premium, or add-on, for taking care of Medicare patients diagnosed with it.

[Stoic]

Being either honest or accurate were never your strong points.

It can seem that way when you come in in the middle of a discussion.

The two points that seanD asked me to refute were

• More money to the hospital if cause of death is listed as COVID-19, even if patient did not die directly of COVID-19.
• A COVID-19 diagnosis also provides extra payments to coroners.

No one is arguing about whether the government incentivized positive diagnoses. But a positive diagnosis does not mean that COVID-19 has to be a cause of death. The hospital gets the same amount of money either way.

[oxmixmudd]

I saw this comic this morning and it reminded me of the people in this thread (on both sides)

1909c0c0675e013a9664005056a9545d.jpg

Very cute, and it makes a valid point in many ways, especially for topics that truly are being debated ( e.g. dark energy and accelerated expansion vs a modified theory of gravity ). But the issue here on this topic is that there is no broad disagreement in the medical community, the experts as it were, over the counting of covid deaths.

Especially wrt overcounting. Indeed, the statistical evidence concerning excess deaths the last two years points to undercounting being the most likely reality.

[rogue06]

Obama tests positive for the China flu, says, "It’s a reminder to get vaccinated if you haven’t already."

Only a liberal would think that catching a disease you're vaccinated against is a good reminder to get vaccinated against that disease.

Harris' hubby has also tested positive

I understand that hearing loss, while not common, has been associated with Covid. Maybe if he's lucky he won't be hearing his wife's incessant cackling.

[Mountain Man]

Harris' hubby has also tested positive

I understand that hearing loss, while not common, has been associated with Covid. Maybe if he's lucky he won't be hearing his wife's incessant cackling.

Joe embarrassingly announced it was "the first lady's husband" and seemed confused when Jill tried to correct him.