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Donald Trump just decided he cares more about keeping Roger Stone quiet than winning

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  • #46
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    I think it is a toss up between Trump and the Obamessiah for which president is the most egotistical one in my lifetime.
    It's not a toss-up in any meaningful way. Obama was never an egotist.

    Incidentally, just because you don't like someone doesn't make them an egotist. Here's a definition, for your edification:

    egotist: a person who is excessively conceited or self-absorbed; self-seeker.

    Whatever faults Obama had, egotism wasn't one of them.
    Last edited by Whateverman; 07-11-2020, 02:16 PM.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
      Trump is a malignant narcissist.
      Who, in this age, would run for POTUS who was not?

      Such people derive their power from "casting a spell" over people who become firm allies.
      Oh boy.

      Such people aren't dislodged incrementally but suddenly, when the dam bursts for them individually. Once that happens those people will never go back to the narcissist. I think each of these actions costs Trump an incremental amount of his support which will be gone forever.
      All opinion, to which you are certainly entitled.

      That is true. Obviously any statement made about the future is going to be speculative so I don't see how this is much of a rejoinder.
      Yes, and in politics, particularly the last few months before an election, things that may have seemed like game changers get eclipsed by other things that are.

      You're sidestepping the question.
      Or perhaps ignoring it as irrelevant.

      Trump's intent is irrelevant. Any action which doesn't gain you votes risks costing you votes by definition. I think this action plays great among the true believers but I don't see how anyone else would be convinced to vote for Trump over this action.
      "Over this action" is tiny in regards to the bigger picture.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #48

        Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
        It's not a toss-up in any meaningful way. Obama was never an egotist..


        Scuse me while I clean up the coffee from my keyboard and monitor.

        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
          It's not a toss-up in any meaningful way. Obama was never an egotist.


          Oh, wait. Your serious.

          The Obamessiah was notorious for his making virtually every subject and event into about himself. His favorite words were "me," "my" and "I." They pretty much had to stop the drinking games during his speeches based upon taking a shot every time he would use any of those words because nobody could make it much more than half way through one.

          For instance

          Former President Barack Obama's recent talk in Berlin Saturday was touted as focusing on “community leadership and civic engagement.” But his speech seemed to focus mainly on another topic: himself.

          “You know, I was — I was a pretty busy guy. I’ve got to say. But I worked out every morning. I mean, I was pretty religious about it. I was in the gym,” were just a handful of the 392 references to himself by Obama in the speech according to Grabien News.

          Obama delivered the almost 90-minute speech, including a question-and-answer session for his foundation. The speech was targeted at “emerging leaders.”

          While the speech was meant to focus on community leadership, Obama spent large portions of the town hall focusing on himself and his accomplishments.


          In just that one speech that was supposed to be about "community leadership and civic engagement," the Obamessiah referred to himself 392 times.

          Reuters did a study and found that Obama referred to himself in speeches something like 70% more than the presidential average. But then again, Trump does likewise, if not a bit more.

          They both are incredibly narcissistic and also are thin-skinned -- but in the latter at least Trump has never used the power of the federal government to go after those who irritated him, which his predecessor did repeatedly.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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          • #50
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            [ATTACH=CONFIG]46538[/ATTACH]


            Oh, wait. Your serious.

            The Obamessiah was notorious for his making virtually every subject and event into about himself. His favorite words were "me," "my" and "I." They pretty much had to stop the drinking games during his speeches based upon taking a shot every time he would use any of those words because nobody could make it much more than half way through one.
            I'm still laughing at that one.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Who, in this age, would run for POTUS who was not?
              I think you should research what being a malignant narcissist actually entails. I just watched a video yesterday explaining that Ted Bundy is no longer considered a psychopath and is now classified as a malignant narcissist.


              All opinion, to which you are certainly entitled.
              No, not opinion. That's actually how narcissists operate and maintain their power.


              Or perhaps ignoring it as irrelevant.
              I want to admit a slight error in my earlier post where I was equivocating on the meaning of "gain votes," which can mean either a net gain in votes or could simply mean convincing someone new to vote for him (but the act could result in a net loss in votes).

              I don't think it's irrelevant to ask whether pardoning Stone will convince a single voter who wasn't already going to vote for Trump to vote for him. I don't see how there is anyone who thinks Stone deserves any mercy who isn't already all in on Trump. You can easily imagine people who were considering voting for Trump who will now be turned off by this act, however. And you can easily imagine how this can be made to appear in political ads. All that rather than let Stone sit in prison for 4 months and then let him out after the election. It doesn't seem like a complicated explanation is really necessary.


              "Over this action" is tiny in regards to the bigger picture.
              Do you really think that letting Stone off the hook for confirmed lies to Congress and for witness tampering is a small thing? I think it's more than a small thing because this one is very clearly corrupt unlike most of the prior scandals (e.g. Flynn, UKR) which had *some* way to spin them.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                I think you should research what being a malignant narcissist actually entails. I just watched a video yesterday explaining that Ted Bundy is no longer considered a psychopath and is now classified as a malignant narcissist.
                Ya know, when somebody says "I think you should research......", it just comes across as arrogant condescending, and I tend to blow it off. Kinda like... it's coming from a narcissist or something.

                No, not opinion. That's actually how narcissists operate and maintain their power.
                You know this from personal experience, perhaps?

                NOTE: You seem to be attempting to have a decent discussion, so a lot of this is me messing with you. It's going to take some getting used to.

                I want to admit a slight error in my earlier post where I was equivocating on the meaning of "gain votes," which can mean either a net gain in votes or could simply mean convincing someone new to vote for him (but the act could result in a net loss in votes).
                Cool --- but I still think you focus way too much on small picture stuff that, in the scope of things, will get lost in the bigger picture.

                I don't think it's irrelevant to ask whether pardoning Stone will convince a single voter who wasn't already going to vote for Trump to vote for him. I don't see how there is anyone who thinks Stone deserves any mercy who isn't already all in on Trump. You can easily imagine people who were considering voting for Trump who will now be turned off by this act, however. And you can easily imagine how this can be made to appear in political ads. All that rather than let Stone sit in prison for 4 months and then let him out after the election. It doesn't seem like a complicated explanation is really necessary.
                I would think the vast majority of people don't give a flyin' flip about Roger Stone.

                Do you really think that letting Stone off the hook for confirmed lies to Congress and for witness tampering is a small thing? I think it's more than a small thing because this one is very clearly corrupt unlike most of the prior scandals (e.g. Flynn, UKR) which had *some* way to spin them.
                I've seen this over and over, and it looks like desperation.... THIS IS THE ONE that will sink Trump! OK, that wasn't it, but NOW..... OK, maybe THIS one will...... rinse, repeat....
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Ya know, when somebody says "I think you should research......", it just comes across as arrogant condescending, and I tend to blow it off. Kinda like... it's coming from a narcissist or something.
                  That's fair. But you're the one claiming that everyone running for president is a malignant narcissist which is clearly false.


                  You know this from personal experience, perhaps?

                  NOTE: You seem to be attempting to have a decent discussion, so a lot of this is me messing with you. It's going to take some getting used to.
                  I don't know this from personal experience. I follow @hoarsewhisperer on twitter who has discussed this topic extensively and who has related his experiences to Trump's behavior in a convincing manner.


                  Cool --- but I still think you focus way too much on small picture stuff that, in the scope of things, will get lost in the bigger picture.
                  Then let's put Palmer Report to the test :). He thinks this Stone action will have a nontrivial effect on Trump's popularity. If he's wrong about this I'll gladly admit that he gets some calls wrong.


                  I would think the vast majority of people don't give a flyin' flip about Roger Stone.
                  I know you said you were on the fence about voting for Trump or writing someone else in. Are you saying that this action has no effect on that decision?


                  I've seen this over and over, and it looks like desperation.... THIS IS THE ONE that will sink Trump! OK, that wasn't it, but NOW..... OK, maybe THIS one will...... rinse, repeat....
                  That's not what I'm claiming in this case. I'm just stating that this action will cost Trump another sliver of his support at a time when he can't afford to lose a single additional vote. That's the extent of things.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                    That's fair. But you're the one claiming that everyone running for president is a malignant narcissist which is clearly false.
                    No, YOU said
                    Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                    Trump is a malignant narcissist.
                    I didn't use that term.

                    Then I ASKED a question, I did not make a statement.

                    I don't know this from personal experience. I follow @hoarsewhisperer on twitter who has discussed this topic extensively and who has related his experiences to Trump's behavior in a convincing manner.
                    So, somebody gave their opinion, and you concur!

                    Then let's put Palmer Report to the test :). He thinks this Stone action will have a nontrivial effect on Trump's popularity. If he's wrong about this I'll gladly admit that he gets some calls wrong.
                    Well, quite honestly, even a broken clock finds an acorn once in a while. This ONE incident won't prove or disprove Palmer's BLOG as accurate.

                    I know you said you were on the fence about voting for Trump or writing someone else in. Are you saying that this action has no effect on that decision?
                    I don't believe I said "writing someone else in" - I don't believe I have ever considered that. But it's WAY to early for me to decide how I'm going to vote. (I think I mentioned staying at home, not writing somebody in)

                    That's not what I'm claiming in this case. I'm just stating that this action will cost Trump another sliver of his support at a time when he can't afford to lose a single additional vote. That's the extent of things.
                    And I think, in the BIG PICTURE, this will have been a snapshot in time.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      No, YOU said

                      I didn't use that term.

                      Then I ASKED a question, I did not make a statement.
                      I took it as a rhetorical question. Are you actually asking me to give examples of people who've run for president who aren't malignant narcissists? According to Lindsey Graham Biden sounds like a pretty sure bet not to be one.


                      So, somebody gave their opinion, and you concur!
                      I took their opinion as data, compared what they said to what others have said about narcissists, and considered how @hoarsewhisperer predicted Trump would behave in different circumstances. E.g. why everyone Trump picks for a job is best and the greatest until all of a sudden they're nobody to him.


                      Well, quite honestly, even a broken clock finds an acorn once in a while. This ONE incident won't prove or disprove Palmer's BLOG as accurate.
                      Of course. I'm just offering this instance as an opportunity to validate on of PR's claims.


                      I don't believe I said "writing someone else in" - I don't believe I have ever considered that. But it's WAY to early for me to decide how I'm going to vote. (I think I mentioned staying at home, not writing somebody in)
                      In any case not supporting Trump. Surely this action pushes you in one direction or another.


                      And I think, in the BIG PICTURE, this will have been a snapshot in time.
                      We'll see if Trump's support reverts to the mean or not. Though since COVID45 is melting down everywhere that seems unlikely to happen irregardless (tragically this is now a word ).
                      Last edited by DivineOb; 07-11-2020, 05:39 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                        I took it as a rhetorical question. Are you actually asking me to give examples of people who've run for president who aren't malignant narcissists? According to Lindsey Graham Biden sounds like a pretty sure bet not to be one.
                        Aw, come on --- I'm talking about THIS age -- we are not the same country we were even 10 years ago. And Biden has other "attributes" -- he would be the Muppet for the narcissists.

                        I took their opinion as data, compared what they said to what others have said about narcissists, and considered how @hoarsewhisperer predicted Trump would behave in different circumstances.
                        Cool.

                        Of course. I'm just offering this instance as an opportunity to validate on of PR's claims.


                        In any case not supporting Trump. Surely this action pushes you in one direction or another.
                        No, it really doesn't. It's not inconsistent with anything Trump has done to the point.

                        We'll see if Trump's support reverts to the mean or not. Though since COVID45 is melting down everywhere that seems unlikely to happen.
                        It's an ETERNITY til the election.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                          According to Lindsey Graham Biden sounds like a pretty sure bet not to be one.
                          Sincere question - do you honestly believe that Biden has the wherewithal to run this country?
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Sincere question - do you honestly believe that Biden has the wherewithal to run this country?
                            Biden's best days are probably behind him. I trust him to rely on advisors where necessary. I think he will probably be more hands off and rely on those he appoints to do a lot of the work (e.g. he says Fauci will have free rein (*smack* not reign) from day 1). He'll be more serving as the conscience of America to repair the harm caused by the past years, help future Democratic stars develop (e.g. Beto, Buttiegeg), and set up his VP to take over in 2025 (or 2023). His #1 job, of course, is to get elected and I think he was probably the best candidate for that. This is all just from my head and I'm not a political scientist.

                            The insanity of those "on the right" claiming that Biden has dementia is just embarrassing though. It's spoken by people who are either gullible, clueless, or actively malevolent (e.g. MM). Biden just went though a bunch of debates and only got stronger after each one (I did not watch much of the debates but I think that was the general conclusion. I did watch the last one in full). If his alleged dementia was such a slam dunk people wouldn't have put so much effort into Tara Reade (remember her?) or getting impeached for trying to fabricate evidence against him.

                            Warren was my #1 (you know I'm hard left) until she blew it with going all in on Medicare for All which would have been a nonstarter in the only states which matter.
                            Last edited by DivineOb; 07-11-2020, 07:08 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Here's the Lincoln project with an ad up in less than 24 hours. Expect to see ads like this up through election day. It seems like a solid ad to me.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Here's the Republican Voters Against Trump ad.

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