Conservative values/principles

[seer]

Tactic!

So who in the leadership of BLM is denouncing Yusra Khogali?

Marxism is not a "bogeyman" to me, CP. As I said - I take the good - discard the rest. I don't cower when someone screams "Marxist" and shudder in revulsion. You have to do better than just scream "marxist!"

Really what part of Marxism do you like? The loss of property rights?

It's unfortunate. Black lives do matter, and these folks deserve both a hearing AND action on their behalf.

Why? What has happened to Black folks?

[Cow Poke]

Tactic?


It could also be argued that the Founders of Christianity were communist. At any rate, it wasn't the Christianity that most practice today.

Only a blooming idiot would argue that, Jim, from an absolutely ignorant interpretation of ONE situation.

[carpedm9587]

Just about every Christian I know (including me) disavows Westboro. Show me who is disavowing Yusra Khogali, please show the links...

I have provided links to some disavowing the violence. Yusra's comments are about six days old, they are from an isolated individual in a Canadian City getting not much more than local notice - except the right has picked up her outrageous comments and leveraged them to blast the entire organization. As best I can tell, the only one paying attention to this young, immature, politically naive young woman is you guys.

Westboro made a name for itself by showing up at high-profile venues and spewing their violence. You folks didn't have much choice but to disavow them, or you would have all looked pretty bad. Out of curiosity, I PMed four people involved with BLM in four different cities and asked them if they knew who Yusra is and not a single one of them had a clue.

So CP is right (sort of). The analogy to Westboro would be better if Westboro were some local church with ugly signs on its lawn and a few nasty tweets in its name and I asked you "why aren't you denouncing Westboro?" when you would have no reason to even know who Westboro was.

Again Carp do you agree with the Marxism of the founders?

I've answered this several times now. I'll let my previous responses stand. If you want a more specific answer, give me a specific belief/claim made by the founders and I can tell you whether or not I agree with it. I don't do blanket "agree" or "disagree" for any individual or "ism."

Do you think they have changed their goals and embraced free markets?

I have no clue.

And do you think we will have more crime or less crime as we take more police off the street?

I believe we will have less crime when we tackle the social ills that lead to the crime we have. To that end, I believe our goal should be to significantly reduce funding to the police and redirect those funds to dealing with those social ills. That being said, you cannot do that as a flash cut. First we need to address the ills, and then reduce the police force as it becomes less needed.

Also you you agree with defunding jails?

I agree that we jail far too many people in far too unjust ways. This "greatest nation on earth" incarcerates more of its citizens than ANY other country on earth, including China. That system is designed to most heavily impact the poorest, which means it most heavily impacts minorities. It needs significant attention and revision. And this practice of privatizing jails is a formula for encouraging crime - it should end.

[carpedm9587]

Black Lives Matter co-founder describes herself as ‘trained Marxist’

Fake news?

Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report.

Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her worldview, Breitbart News reported.

“The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza.

“We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,” Cullors added in the interview with Jared Ball of The Real News Network.

Not at all. I am not surprised that they are trained organizers - and their political/social/economic views may well be influenced by Marx. Like I said - as with all philosophies - Marxism has some good and some bad. Before I toss someone under a bus - I want to know what they think and why they think it. I'm not going to dismiss (or dis) someone simply because of a label that has been applied to them - even if they applied the label themselves.

After all, CP, I still like YOU - and you're a Christian Texan!

[Mountain Man]

In general, conservatives tend to fear change for any reason.

That depends on what the "change" is and what the "reason" is.

As for our Founding Fathers, they were not "liberals" in any sense of the word, not even in the tortured sense that you try to use it. They were, in fact, hardcore conservative thinkers who were not promoting a new ideal but were, in fact, demanding a return to one of the oldest ideals in history, primarily "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," and the system of government they devised was based on the notion that these ancient ideals deserved to be aggressively protected from those who would attempt to suppress them.

[Cow Poke]

So CP is right

GOSH!!! Did you have to type that so BIG?

(sort of).

Couldn't help yourself!

The analogy to Westboro would be better if Westboro were some local church with ugly signs on its lawn and a few nasty tweets in its name and I asked you "why aren't you denouncing Westboro?" when you would have no reason to even know who Westboro was.

It was basically the hate-filled Phelps family loudly and clearly and universally denounced by Christianity. It's the "easy mark" for the uninformed to attempt to defend bad actions of their own.

[Cow Poke]

Not at all. I am not surprised that they are trained organizers -

That goes without saying. Though, I'll say it too, if you want me to.

and their political/social/economic views may well be influenced by Marx

I suddenly think we MAY be making progress.

[Mountain Man]

A) There is nothing here I disagree with.

Wow... what more needs to be said?

[seer]

I have provided links to some disavowing the violence. Yusra's comments are about six days old, they are from an isolated individual in a Canadian City getting not much more than local notice - except the right has picked up her outrageous comments and leveraged them to blast the entire organization. As best I can tell, the only one paying attention to this young, immature, politically naive young woman is you guys.

That is right, hand wave...

Westboro made a name for itself by showing up at high-profile venues and spewing their violence. You folks didn't have much choice but to disavow them, or you would have all looked pretty bad. Out of curiosity, I PMed four people involved with BLM in four different cities and asked them if they knew who Yusra is and not a single one of them had a clue.

Of course now that they know they categorically denounce her - right. And I'm sure the leadership knows her she is the founder of BLM Toronto after all.

I believe we will have less crime when we tackle the social ills that lead to the crime we have. To that end, I believe our goal should be to significantly reduce funding to the police and redirect those funds to dealing with those social ills. That being said, you cannot do that as a flash cut. First we need to address the ills, and then reduce the police force as it becomes less needed.

Well of course if you have less crime you may need less police, unless the level of police is what is keep the crime down. But of course we all know what is going to happen. Ya want to bet?

I agree that we jail far too many people in far too unjust ways. This "greatest nation on earth" incarcerates more of its citizens than ANY other country on earth, including China. That system is designed to most heavily impact the poorest, which means it most heavily impacts minorities. It needs significant attention and revision. And this practice of privatizing jails is a formula for encouraging crime - it should end.

Well in China they just execute you. And they are a police state (a real one). We simply have more violent crime in this country than in most western countries. And the poor minorities are the ones committing the bulk of violent crimes - percentage wise.

[carpedm9587]

Either you you are ignorant of what they founders of BLM believe or, well.

I actually AM ignorant of what several of the BLM "founders" personally believe. I never looked into it and don't really care. I'm primarily interested in what the people I work with believe, and what the organization as a whole believe. The personal beliefs of the founders don't have much import to me.

The founders are Marxists - do you agree with Marxism?

See my previous answers.

And why do they use the term comrade knowing the history of that term?

Because they are politically naive and mostly young?

Yes collectivism...

You guys do seem to love to swing those "isms" around...

[Mountain Man]

Well of course if you have less crime you may need less police, unless the level of police is what is keep the crime down. But of course we all know what is going to happen. Ya want to bet?

Liberals are saying they want to replace police officers with social workers to handle "non-violent" calls, but as any police officer will tell you, it's not uncommon for a non-violent situation to suddenly and unexpectedly turn violent, and then what will a social worker do?

[seer]

Because they are politically naive and mostly young?

That was on the website that you linked, the main website. And if they are that politically naive God help us if they ever gain any real power...

You guys do seem to love to swing those "isms" around...

If the shoe fits...

[seer]

Liberals are saying they want to replace police officers with social workers to handle "non-violent" calls, but as any police officer will tell you, it's not uncommon for a non-violent situation to suddenly and unexpectedly turn violent, and then what will a social worker do?

I mean they are just plain stupid and that makes them dangerous.

[carpedm9587]

So who in the leadership of BLM is denouncing Yusra Khogali?

No one that I have seen.

Really what part of Marxism do you like?

The emphasis on understanding historical dynamics by examining the materialist roots that underlay it - and the recognition that society tends to organize itself into classes.

The loss of property rights?

No - I am an advocate of property rights - so long as it is recognized that no property right is "absolute." As with all rights - when claimed in the context of a society - rights must be balanced.

Why? What has happened to Black folks?

[Cow Poke]

The emphasis on understanding historical dynamics by examining the materialist roots that underlay it - and the recognition that society tends to organize itself into classes.

Just curious, can you cite 3 examples of where Marxism has addressed this with positive results?