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Thread: The changing of history continues

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    Farewell, Big Chief! mossrose's Avatar
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    The changing of history continues


    The statue of slave trader Edward Colston was replaced in Bristol on Wednesday morning – with a sculpture of one of the protesters whose anger brought him down.

    The figure of Jen Reid, who was photographed standing on the plinth with her fist raised after the 17th-century merchant was toppled by Black Lives Matter demonstrators last month, was erected at dawn by a team directed by the artist Marc Quinn.

    The ambush sculpture is likely to reignite the debate over public statuary in the UK that began with the toppling of the Colston figure five weeks ago. On Wednesday morning police said they had had no complaints and it was “a matter for Bristol city council”.

    Marvin Rees, the city’s mayor, issued a statement saying that “the future of the plinth and what is installed on it must be decided by the people of Bristol”. He said the sculpture was “the work and decision of a London-based artist,” and added: “It was not requested and permission was not given for it to be installed.”

    But he stopped short of saying that the council would act to remove it.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tter-protester


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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post

    The statue of slave trader Edward Colston was replaced in Bristol on Wednesday morning – with a sculpture of one of the protesters whose anger brought him down.

    The figure of Jen Reid, who was photographed standing on the plinth with her fist raised after the 17th-century merchant was toppled by Black Lives Matter demonstrators last month, was erected at dawn by a team directed by the artist Marc Quinn.

    The ambush sculpture is likely to reignite the debate over public statuary in the UK that began with the toppling of the Colston figure five weeks ago. On Wednesday morning police said they had had no complaints and it was “a matter for Bristol city council”.

    Marvin Rees, the city’s mayor, issued a statement saying that “the future of the plinth and what is installed on it must be decided by the people of Bristol”. He said the sculpture was “the work and decision of a London-based artist,” and added: “It was not requested and permission was not given for it to be installed.”

    But he stopped short of saying that the council would act to remove it.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tter-protester
    I don't view this as 'changing history'. I view it as recognizing that slave traders and the like are not worthy of the honor associated with a statue to them in an arbitrary public venue. I remember the first time I saw a statue of Robert E. Lee. I was very young. I asked my mom, "why do they have a statue to him, he fought to keep people slaves?"

    And I'm not black. Imagine if you are a black citizen of this country or any country asking why in the world some countries would honor men that tried to keep people like you as slave. Or - as in this case - that actually engaged in the abusive, evil practice of trading men and women as slaves.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-15-2020 at 12:41 PM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  3. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.
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    Farewell, Big Chief! mossrose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I don't view this as 'changing history'. I view it as recognizing that slave traders and the like are not worthy of the honor associated with a statue to them in an arbitrary public venue. I remember the first time I saw a statue of Robert E. Lee. I was very young. I asked my mom, "why do they have a statue to him, he fought to keep people slaves?"

    And I'm not black. Imagine if you are a black citizen of this country or any country asking why in the world some countries would honor men that tried to keep people like you as slave. Or - as in this case - that actually engaged in the abusive, evil practice of trading men and women as slaves.
    So it's appropriate then to have statues of anybody who may or may not have been involved in public rioting and vandalism.

    Got it.


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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Americans and Iraqis of all different political persuasions cheered when the Saddam Hussein statue was toppled by Baghdad residents. I think that this incident shows that most people recognize the symbolic nature of statues, and that removing the statue does not erase the historical record of Saddam's atrocities.

    As I am against all statues, I do disagree with placing the BLM statue in its place.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Well it appears they know who tore down the original statue so they should arrest her and put up a statue of her behind bars.

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    Farewell, Big Chief! mossrose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Well it appears they know who tore down the original statue so they should arrest her and put up a statue of her behind bars.
    It will never happen. This will be accepted because the liberal politicians are either too stupid or too afraid to do anything about it. Otherwise they would have already arrested the history canceling mobs.


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    tWebber Whateverman's Avatar
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    I don't see how this changes history in any way.

    In any case, people who are offended by this statue (as opposed to just disagreeing with the change) still don't experience the kind of offense enslaved races might feel about the statue of a slave trader/owner.

    But it's a good start...
    Last edited by Whateverman; 07-15-2020 at 01:41 PM.

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    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    So it's appropriate then to have statues of anybody who may or may not have been involved in public rioting and vandalism.

    Got it.
    I don't support this statue being taken down by a riot, and I don't support the rioters putting up a statue in its stead. It's not a good precedent, and I don't think proper lasting change can come from that.

  10. Amen mossrose, DesertBerean, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I don't view this as 'changing history'. I view it as recognizing that slave traders and the like are not worthy of the honor associated with a statue to them in an arbitrary public venue. I remember the first time I saw a statue of Robert E. Lee. I was very young. I asked my mom, "why do they have a statue to him, he fought to keep people slaves?"

    And I'm not black. Imagine if you are a black citizen of this country or any country asking why in the world some countries would honor men that tried to keep people like you as slave. Or - as in this case - that actually engaged in the abusive, evil practice of trading men and women as slaves.
    It never phased me a bit. If I saw one of those statues in person it would have no impact on me whatsoever, other than maybe admiring the artwork and detail, but void of any historical significance about it. The fact you're white and it phases you more than me is the creepiest and most bizarre thing to me.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  12. Amen mossrose amen'd this post.
  13. #10
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    So it's appropriate then to have statues of anybody who may or may not have been involved in public rioting and vandalism.

    Got it.
    Actually - I wasn't even responding to who theyput up in it's place, but rather just the fellow whose statue was taken down. But, think about it. Do we in the US have statues of revolutionary war hero's that engaged in public rioting and vandalism? (to those impacted by the financial loss, what else would they call the Boston Tea Party?)

    I do not know anything about the man they erected the statue too, but, someone protesting the massive disparities that still exist as a consequence of the legacy of slavery and racism would seem a potentially appropriate choice to replace a statue to a man that actually bought and sold slaves as part of how he gained wealth and status.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-15-2020 at 03:15 PM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  14. Amen Hypatia_Alexandria amen'd this post.

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