The changing of history continues

[seanD]

Here's some 'art' which dates to around the time that some of those statues went up and with the same intent behind it. Are you really ok with just saying "Well, it was art once so I guess we should just live with it"?

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I've lived in some pretty harsh environments, so I guess I'm just not a beta male offended by everything. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe I should take some liberal arts and racial studies in college to try and get my hypersensitive juices flowing. Btw, weren't there an awful lot of liberal celebrities that caught doing that?

[DivineOb]

I've lived in some pretty harsh environments, so I guess I'm just not a beta male offended by everything. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe I should take some liberal arts and racial studies in college to try and get my hypersensitive juices flowing. Btw, weren't there an awful lot of liberal celebrities that caught doing that?

I've never understood the concept at how moderating your behavior to avoid offending someone who hasn't done anything to you considered 'beta' or • Edited by a Moderator • or whatever. If you aren't offended by such displays then good for you. Is it so hard to imagine that there is a significant number of people who are offended by such? Why not take their feelings into account?

I'm not going to defend someone who has worn blackface as I honestly don't understand the history enough to understand why it should be utterly verboten. I'd suggest that there is a difference, though, between wearing blackface in order to racially mock African Americans and wearing it in order to better portray a role, particularly to imitate a celebrity. But someone who makes their living from show business ought to understand the do's and don'ts on a level exceeding mine.

[rogue06]

I don't view this as 'changing history'. I view it as recognizing that slave traders and the like are not worthy of the honor associated with a statue to them in an arbitrary public venue. I remember the first time I saw a statue of Robert E. Lee. I was very young. I asked my mom, "why do they have a statue to him, he fought to keep people slaves?"

And I'm not black. Imagine if you are a black citizen of this country or any country asking why in the world some countries would honor men that tried to keep people like you as slave. Or - as in this case - that actually engaged in the abusive, evil practice of trading men and women as slaves.

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

Abraham.jpg Abram.jpg

Tear Them Down! Tear Them Down!

[seanD]

I've never understood the concept at how moderating your behavior to avoid offending someone who hasn't done anything to you considered 'beta' or • Edited by a Moderator • or whatever. If you aren't offended by such displays then good for you. Is it so hard to imagine that there is a significant number of people who are offended by such? Why not take their feelings into account?

I'm not going to defend someone who has worn blackface as I honestly don't understand the history enough to understand why it should be utterly verboten. I'd suggest that there is a difference, though, between wearing blackface in order to racially mock African Americans and wearing it in order to better portray a role, particularly to imitate a celebrity. But someone who makes their living from show business ought to understand the do's and don'ts on a level exceeding mine.

You're out of your mind if you think the word "beta" and the • Edited by a Moderator • word you just used has any equivalence of meaning whatsoever. I guess we'll know in how the mods here deal with that. I also don't forget the fact you accused us of (a word for giving oral sex) to Putin, so don't even try to take any sort of moral ground with the vulgar behavior you display here.

[DivineOb]

You're out of your mind if you think the word "beta" and the "c" word you just used has any equivalence of meaning whatsoever. I guess we'll know in how the mods here deal with that. I also don't forget the fact you accused us of (a word for giving oral sex) to Putin, so don't even try to take any sort of moral ground with the vulgar behavior you display here.

The fact that you are more worried about the • Edited by a Moderator • word than you are of an extremely racist image is... something, I guess.

[seanD]

The fact that you are more worried about the • Edited by a Moderator • word than you are of an extremely racist image is... something, I guess.

The word doesn't bother me at all. What bothers me is your hypocrisy calling me out about the word "beta," and trying to act like there's a vulgar equivalence.

Btw, both instances of blackface were done for entertainment value at the expense of black people. So why should fake Hollywood liberals doing it today be any less offensive to you?

[DivineOb]

The word doesn't bother me at all. What bothers me is your hypocrisy calling me out about the word "beta," and trying to act like there's a vulgar equivalence.

I'm not claiming that "beta" is vulgar. But its meaning is clearly meant to indicate that a particular man is "less than." I don't see why, as a while man, being offended by confederate statues makes one "less than." That's all.

Btw, both instances of blackface were done for entertainment value at the expense of black people. So why should fake Hollywood liberals doing it today be any less offensive to you?

I'm not convinced that all cases were done "with the intended expense of black people." But I'm also pretty ignorant of this topic so I defer to those who know more and particularly those who find the depictions offensive. Just like if someone wore a bunch of fake muscles, stuffed a small boulder down their pants, and started making fun of my gargantuan intellect I would find it offensive. Those things are me but they don't *define* me. It really doesn't impact my quality of life to accept that actors should just never wear blackface even if I thought Tropic Thunder was a funny movie.

[seanD]

I'm not claiming that "beta" is vulgar. But its meaning is clearly meant to indicate that a particular man is "less than." I don't see why, as a while man, being offended by confederate statues makes one "less than." That's all.



I'm not convinced that all cases were done "with the intended expense of black people." But I'm also pretty ignorant of this topic so I defer to those who know more and particularly those who find the depictions offensive. Just like if someone wore a bunch of fake muscles, stuffed a small boulder down their pants, and started making fun of my gargantuan intellect I would find it offensive. Those things are me but they don't *define* me. It really doesn't impact my quality of life to accept that actors should just never wear blackface even if I thought Tropic Thunder was a funny movie.

I didn't say being offended by statues made one a beta male. I was reacting to you showing me a dude in blackface, thinking, I guess, that it would somehow offend me. And I said I'm not a beta male where every little thing offends me. Though I was more off-put by your absurd hypocrisy, trying to act like I was being offensive and that you're on some kind of moral high ground when you've said far more vulgar things than me just using the word "beta." I detest phonies and was calling you out on it.

[oxmixmudd]

It's creepy that it affects you this way as a white man more than it does me. I look at it as just art. What it represents historically hundreds of years ago in a country that is now free means absolutely nothing to me. The hypersensitivity to it is what I can't fathom even to a black person, much MORE so to a white person.

Creepy? The issue to me is why would anyone want to honor such a person. It's not so much an empathy thing. Its who in their right mind puts up a statue to a man that captured humans and sold them on an auction block?

[DivineOb]

I didn't say being offended by statues made one a beta male. I was reacting to you showing me a dude in blackface, thinking, I guess, that it would somehow offend me. And I said I'm not a beta male where every little thing offends me. Though I was more off-put by your absurd hypocrisy, trying to act like I was being offensive and that you're on some kind of moral high ground when you've said far more vulgar things than me just using the word "beta." I detest phonies and was calling you out on it.

I was under no illusion that seeing a picture of a man in blackface was going to offend you. I was trying to show you that something being 'art' doesn't provide a blanket defense against future generations deciding that such 'art' no longer has a place in their society. Surely you agree that depictions of blackface of *that* sort don't belong in our society today, right?

[seanD]

Creepy? The issue to me is why would anyone want to honor such a person. It's not so much an empathy thing. Its who in their right mind puts up a statue to a man that captured humans and sold them on an auction block?

I don't know, man. My guess is maybe he was honored by anti-abolitionists at time? But so what? Why did Joe Biden fight so hard to oppose desegregation? Who knows. Why should it bother you why it was put up anymore than it should bother you that Biden was once a pro segregationist? The past is the past and we can't change it. So the fact you're so offended by the statue and I'm not is creepy to me. If I'm not offended why should you be?

I was under no illusion that seeing a picture of a man in blackface was going to offend you. I was trying to show you that something being 'art' doesn't provide a blanket defense against future generations deciding that such 'art' no longer has a place in their society. Surely you agree that depictions of blackface of *that* sort don't belong in our society today, right?

I already gave you the answer. I don't even know whose image it is. For all I know the man loved blacks and he was imitating them just for entertainment value like the phony Hollywood liberals do today. Maybe he was even being sarcastic and making fun of it. Maybe he was flaming racist. I'm not a beta male offended by these things. It's just an image of a time long ago before I was ever born. Does it offend you? And if it does, why?

[DivineOb]

I already gave you the answer. I don't even know whose image it is. For all I know the man loved blacks and he was imitating them just for entertainment value like the phony Hollywood liberals do today. Maybe he was even being sarcastic and making fun of it. Maybe he was flaming racist. I'm not a beta male offended by these things. It's just an image of a time long ago before I was ever born. Does it offend you? And if it does, why?

Sorry, I need suspension of disbelief and I just can't muster it up.

[seanD]

Sorry, I need suspension of disbelief and I just can't muster it up.

Once again creepsville.

[Ronson]

I vote for a statue of Maxwell Smart.

[oxmixmudd]

Sorry, I need suspension of disbelief and I just can't muster it up.

I went and looked it up. The replacement statue captures a moment when a protestor, after the other stature was toppled, climbed up on the pedestal on which it stood and raised her fist in the black power salute.

The artist just did it without being asked or prompted, its actually a very nice statue.

Personally, I think it's great, and a fitting replacement for a statue honoring a slave trader. It captures what I think should be our attitude towards racism and the legacy of slavery.

Lets finally rid ourselves of it.