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ID and coronavirus conspiracy theories

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  • ID and coronavirus conspiracy theories

    Stumbled across an article that seems relevant to some discussions we've had here.

    https://www.americanscientist.org/bl...-corona-moment

    Now, i find the article to be not especially well written, and it kind of wanders all over the place. But i think the central point is an interesting one, which I'll try to summarize.

    There's a conspiracy theory going around that the virus has been intentionally engineered, possibly in a weapons lab (different conspiracies point the finger either at China or the US). Biologists, looking at the changes, have shown that it largely fits in to what we know about the evolution of coronaviruses, with only one somewhat unusual feature that isn't likely to be something that anyone would engineer. (I can go into details about that feature if someone cares).

    The author of this piece suggests that this is exactly the sort of thing intelligent design proponents have been saying they can settle: looking at a bit of biology and determining whether it's designed. Yet there's no indicate that any of them have even tried, or that they have even bothered to develop the tools that would help them make that determination.


    Now, since ID has become pretty much irrelevant to policy, i don't follow it that carefully anymore. So, maybe the author is wrong, and the ID community is looking at this. But if not, it would seem that they're either not capable of figuring this out, or they simply don't care. That's in sharp contrast with the evolutionary biologists, who have shown that the tools they've developed can tell us important things about the virus, and are busy using those tools.
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

  • #2
    Interesting.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Interesting - though the idea of bashing a group with limited resources for not openly investigating the particular case X seems rather picayune.
      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
        Stumbled across an article that seems relevant to some discussions we've had here.

        https://www.americanscientist.org/bl...-corona-moment

        Now, i find the article to be not especially well written, and it kind of wanders all over the place. But i think the central point is an interesting one, which I'll try to summarize.

        There's a conspiracy theory going around that the virus has been intentionally engineered, possibly in a weapons lab (different conspiracies point the finger either at China or the US). Biologists, looking at the changes, have shown that it largely fits in to what we know about the evolution of coronaviruses, with only one somewhat unusual feature that isn't likely to be something that anyone would engineer. (I can go into details about that feature if someone cares).

        The author of this piece suggests that this is exactly the sort of thing intelligent design proponents have been saying they can settle: looking at a bit of biology and determining whether it's designed. Yet there's no indicate that any of them have even tried, or that they have even bothered to develop the tools that would help them make that determination.


        Now, since ID has become pretty much irrelevant to policy, i don't follow it that carefully anymore. So, maybe the author is wrong, and the ID community is looking at this. But if not, it would seem that they're either not capable of figuring this out, or they simply don't care. That's in sharp contrast with the evolutionary biologists, who have shown that the tools they've developed can tell us important things about the virus, and are busy using those tools.
        That's why, even if true, ID cannot tell us anything further than we already know about 'reality' or improve our understanding of the natural world. There's no mechanism for 'researching' supernatural methods.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Interesting - though the idea of bashing a group with limited resources for not openly investigating the particular case X seems rather picayune.
          There's three arguments that could be made against that. The first is that most biologists with the ability to study the virus have dropped everything they were doing and focused on that, recognizing it might be the most important thing they could do in their lifetimes.

          The second is that the hard work here - obtaining virus samples, sequencing their genomes, etc. has already been done by biologists. All that should be left is the analysis, which shouldn't take many resources. (I'm assuming that knowing a few thousand coronavirus genomes is enough to do an ID analysis; maybe i'm wrong, but the ID crowd has never described how to do an analysis, so it's a bit hard to say).

          The third is that they should be motivated to show people that ID actually has something to contribute - the thing they devoted their life to is more than hot air, and the scientific community should respect it.
          "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            Interesting - though the idea of bashing a group with limited resources for not openly investigating the particular case X seems rather picayune.
            I think that the point is that this is just the sort of thing that the Intelligent Design crowd has repeatedly declared that they have been looking for and now that it is here they appear to be ignoring it.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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            • #7
              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              Interesting - though the idea of bashing a group with limited resources for not openly investigating the particular case X seems rather picayune.
              Oh come now. With all those tax free millions at the disposal of sectors of the Religious Right?
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                Oh come now. With all those tax free millions at the disposal of sectors of the Religious Right?
                This is amusing on so many levels.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  I think that the point is that this is just the sort of thing that the Intelligent Design crowd has repeatedly declared that they have been looking for and now that it is here they appear to be ignoring it.
                  Well, no, Evolution News has a piece out on coronavirus, and viruses in general.

                  Blessings,
                  Lee
                  "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                    Well, no, Evolution News has a piece out on coronavirus, and viruses in general.

                    Blessings,
                    Lee
                    . . . and it does not represent science.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                      Stumbled across an article that seems relevant to some discussions we've had here.

                      https://www.americanscientist.org/bl...-corona-moment

                      Now, i find the article to be not especially well written, and it kind of wanders all over the place. But i think the central point is an interesting one, which I'll try to summarize.

                      There's a conspiracy theory going around that the virus has been intentionally engineered, possibly in a weapons lab (different conspiracies point the finger either at China or the US). Biologists, looking at the changes, have shown that it largely fits in to what we know about the evolution of coronaviruses, with only one somewhat unusual feature that isn't likely to be something that anyone would engineer. (I can go into details about that feature if someone cares).

                      The author of this piece suggests that this is exactly the sort of thing intelligent design proponents have been saying they can settle: looking at a bit of biology and determining whether it's designed. Yet there's no indicate that any of them have even tried, or that they have even bothered to develop the tools that would help them make that determination.


                      Now, since ID has become pretty much irrelevant to policy, i don't follow it that carefully anymore. So, maybe the author is wrong, and the ID community is looking at this. But if not, it would seem that they're either not capable of figuring this out, or they simply don't care. That's in sharp contrast with the evolutionary biologists, who have shown that the tools they've developed can tell us important things about the virus, and are busy using those tools.
                      They like to start with things that we all agree were not designed by humans, and show that they were designed (based on personal incredulity).

                      Starting with something that might have been designed by humans, and determining whether it was or was not designed by humans, is an entirely different thing.

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                          Well, no, Evolution News has a piece out on coronavirus, and viruses in general.
                          Maybe, rather than dumping a link to a video, you can do something constructive and summarize it and its relevance to the actual topic under discussion.
                          "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            That's not accurate. The tools actual biologists are using are meant to analyze something's evolution. Nobody set out to look at whether this virus was designed; they simply applied the tools we'd developed to study evolution to the data we've gotten from viral genome sequencing.

                            Your contention seems to be that ID is nothing more than waiting for actual biologists to study something, and hoping there's something weird about it.
                            "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Scientists have been looking for evidence of human design. They know (or at least assume they know) what tools are available to humans to modify a virus, and they know what telltale signs would be left behind if humans used these tools. They also have an idea of what purposes humans might have had in mind if they chose to modify this virus.

                              None of this validates the idea that some level of complexity must be the result of design.

                              Comment

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