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secret forces in oregon cities, as in DC

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  • For the record....

    I do not LIKE Federal Officers in Portland.
    I don't think THEY like being in Portland.
    To refer to them as "Bozos", though, is, to quote a friend "beyond the pale".

    There are enough reasons to be opposed to this without resorting to drama and outright lies.
    WHY is it necessary to employ drama and lies to try to make a point?

    From the hit-piece Charles cited...

    Indeed, while the president has justified his threats to “take over” left-leaning cities by painting a picture of doom and gloom, the protests have been largely peaceful.


    The author then seems to begrudgingly concede that "there are exceptions".

    For cryin' out loud, even the PORTLAND POLICE say it's been a RIOT every night.

    None of the HateTrump crowd have been willing to address the question -- WHY has the mayor of Portland allowed this to go on and on and on?
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      I read the article. The illustration is a perfect fit.
      Perhaps of your hateful reading of it

      The text is very critical of him. The text, however, does not portray him as the devil, says nothing about him having horns or the like. Very important difference if you are looking for truth. It seems, once again, you are scared of it.
      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        It's not a lie CP.
        I am going to respond to SELECT parts of this, Jim, because we're saying the same things over and over, and it's getting wearisome.

        I said secretive. I did not say secret.
        Look at your thread title, Jim --- secret forces in oregon cities, as in DC


        Skipping past your attempt to justify not saying what you clearly said...

        What distortions. We have the video. No record of his arrest was given,
        None is required.

        we have no public records that allow us to determine if the arrest was justified.
        According to his friend, he was read his rights, questioned, and released. No charges were filed, no "public record" necessary.

        and you still ignore the man shot in the head, and the navy vet beaten and who will need surgery to repair his hand.
        No, Jim - that's a lie. I have responded to that multiple times. But, again, not calling you a liar, because I believe that YOU believe this lie.

        See - this is your ad hominem nature coming out. I've already said over and over I do NOT approve of anarchy and vandalism in the protests.
        Have you ever started a thread addressing it? Or a post of substance denouncing it?

        What I have said, in at least every other post, is that to mobilize a national police force that does not obey the basic rights guaranteed by the constitution is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Why don't you try addressing the points I'm making instead of building strawman arguments laced with ad hominem?
        "laced with ad hominem", Jim? I've responded to EVERY POINT you've made, and in detail, and in response, you ignore that and go back to raging.

        It would appear however that you don't have a problem with solutions to those underlying problems that violate the principles that are defined in our constitution and that drove the founding of our nation.
        I love law and order. There is no law and order in Portland with regards to the local officials handling the riots.

        I think you'd better go back and read your posts a bit more carefull CP. You most certainly are a hater.
        No, Jim. It's not in my nature. Never has been, even when I was lost.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Charles View Post
          Perhaps of your hateful reading of it
          WAAAAANNNNNnnnnnhhhhhhh.... Charles attacked my PERSON!!!! WAAAAaaaannnnnnhhhh.... I'm gonna report this terrible offense!!!



          The text is very critical of him.
          Yes, that's why I called it a "hit-piece".

          The text, however, does not portray him as the devil, says nothing about him having horns or the like. Very important difference if you are looking for truth. It seems, once again, you are scared of it.
          Charles, STOP ATTACKING MY PERSON!!!! I'm tired of these Ad Homonyms!!!! WAAAAaaaaannnnhhhhhh!

          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Jim, honey, NEVER put me and you in the same boat. And NEVER pretend to know what I think or know.
            I don't have to pretend CP, I know you very well by now.


            Outright lie - there is nothing secret about them.
            Call them what you will, they are the wannabe dictators unlawful thugs.


            No. Unfounded claim. It's far more likely they are targeting "command and control" elements - troublemakers.
            Then they would be charged with a crime. As far as you and the secret police are concerned, they are all troublemakers.


            Yet another unfounded claim. No surprise there!
            We can see, CP, apparently you cannot. Just like we can see them beatin and pepper spraying peaceful protesters. You're simply complicit, that's all there is to it.


            You're on a roll! More unfounded claims.
            There are none so blind as those with a closed mind.


            You TOTALLY ignored the NOLO article.
            No, I didn't. If they are cuffed and taken into custody, they are under arrest. They are not free to walk away. They don't charge them with a crime, because they have nothing on them.


            If they are beating and pepper spraying peaceful protesters, I clearly denounce that.
            Disingenuous. "If" they are beating and pepper spraying peaceful protesters is not in question. It's a fact that you just don't don't have it in you to admit to.

            IF ONLY you guys could stick with FACT and TRUTH instead of FEAR and RUMORS.
            If you weren't complicit with the illegal unconstitutional actions ordered by your beloved dictator, you'd be in fear for your country as well. Keep sitting on that fence though and pretend you're waiting for the facts.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              It's not a lie CP. I said secretive. I did not say secret. Secretive is different and acknowledges they do have some sort of ID, however meager, and that we do, now after many investigations into where they came from, have sort of a general idea where they come from (but we didn't in DC). But they are secretive. They do not announce themselves. They have multiple origins, they wear uniforms that do not clearly differentiate them from military or pseudo military forces. More to the point, the arrest without oversight and without a record. Their deeds, their actions, their orders, their operating principles are not clearly known. They are secretive.

              What distortions. We have the video. No record of his arrest was given, we have no public records that allow us to determine if the arrest was justified.

              and you still ignore the man shot in the head, and the navy vet beaten and who will need surgery to repair his hand.

              See - this is your ad hominem nature coming out. I've already said over and over I do NOT approve of anarchy and vandalism in the protests. What I have said, in at least every other post, is that to mobilize a national police force that does not obey the basic rights guaranteed by the constitution is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Why don't you try addressing the points I'm making instead of building strawman arguments laced with ad hominem?

              It would appear however that you don't have a problem with solutions to those underlying problems that violate the principles that are defined in our constitution and that drove the founding of our nation.

              I think you'd better go back and read your posts a bit more carefully CP. You most certainly are a hater.
              FBI, CIA, DHS, NSA, all "secretive"

              Does every liberal not understand the secretive nature of law enforcement? Most especially federal agents. They just kinda show up and bust your door down, amirite? Didn't that happen to old man Stone?

              Undercover is undercover man. I know I would not want anything identifying me when I walk up to some brick throwing dingleberry millennial Marxist who organized violence. I would roll up on that clown in a van and grab him, rudely.

              In fact, I have these people in mind. The store owners who had their business looted, and the ones who had theirs burned to the ground, and the others who need to replace all their windows, and the widows of those who were murdered.

              I think of them first, not these violent clowns.

              If none committed violence and rioting, we wouldn't have anything to talk about here, other than changing police procedure and training.

              Can't get there, too much violence. I've even heard sensible liberals who have said that they are short circuiting their message with violence. Is there not a liberal on this board who agrees?
              Last edited by Maranatha; 07-23-2020, 10:47 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                I don't have to pretend CP, I know you very well by now.
                Sure, Jim.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  Then they would be charged with a crime.
                  Simply not true, as the NOLO article clearly explained.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post



                    Look at your thread title, Jim --- secret forces in oregon cities, as in DC
                    So you are just going to answer my thread title over and over again and not answer what I'm saying in my actual posts? Again, snarky doesn't cut it. I said secretive in my reply, and secretive is what I meant. When I used secret in my title, I meant the same thing, but I've already explained that and you've already ignored that explaniation multiple times. Which is why I used the term secretive instead. But it would, again, appear you are not interested in anything other than snarky, hostile replies that offer little of substance.[/QUOTE]

                    Skipping past your attempt to justify not saying what you clearly said...
                    The WORD I used in my title is not the content of the POST you are replying to. Can you answer the reply - or are you just going to harp on the fact you disagree with my thread title forever?




                    ...

                    No, Jim - that's a lie. I have responded to that multiple times. But, again, not calling you a liar, because I believe that YOU believe this lie.
                    Where?

                    Have you ever started a thread addressing it? Or a post of substance denouncing it?
                    I have on multiple occasions said that the vandalism is bad but the solution of a secretive national police force to that problem is wrong.


                    "laced with ad hominem", Jim? I've responded to EVERY POINT you've made, and in detail, and in response, you ignore that and go back to raging.
                    No you haven't CP. Most of what you call 'responses' are accusations of some sort of malfeasance on my part - ad hominem.


                    I love law and order. There is no law and order in Portland with regards to the local officials handling the riots.



                    No, Jim. It's not in my nature. Never has been, even when I was lost.
                    Again, you need to take a long, long look in the mirror CP. There is little evidenced but disdain and hatred in your posts to those you disagree with.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • I think this demonstrates, in a nutshell, the denial going on here...

                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Jim, there you go again.... that's a LIE! There are no "secret forces".

                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      It's not a lie CP. I said secretive. I did not say secret.

                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Look at your thread title, Jim --- secret forces in oregon cities, as in DC
                      .
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        Again, you need to take a long, long look in the mirror CP. There is little evidenced but disdain and hatred in your posts to those you disagree with.
                        I don't hate, Jim.
                        I don't hate Trump, I don't hate you, I don't hate the federal officers in Portland.... I'm just not a hater.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          I think this demonstrates, in a nutshell, the denial going on here...
                          Some might argue that the fact that it is adressed in the post above your own which was written before your post demonstrates the denial going on here.

                          http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post766082
                          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Maranatha View Post
                            FBI, CIA, DHS, NSA, all "secretive"
                            Secretive is not the only issue driving my argument against what Trump is doing. Oversight and limitation of power, commitment to the constitution itself are also issues. But consider the organizations you list:

                            The FBI operates under the DOJ (which is unfortunately compromised by the President through the loyalty of Barr to Trump above the constitution and the rule of law) and is concerned with intelligence and enforcement. It's enforcement activities must be authorized by a judge based on probable cause. The CIA is an intelligence agency, not law enforcement, has no authority on US soil and is under oversight by the US Congress. DHS is fully compromised in that is is run by an unconfirmed 'interim' appointee -which is the problem we are dealing with. the NSA is NOT a law enforcement force, it is an arm of US intelligence.

                            Does every liberal not understand the secretive nature of law enforcement? Most especially federal agents. They just kinda show up and bust your door down, amirite? Didn't that happen to old man Stone?
                            Not without oversight - not without approval. Those events require authorization from a judge. They can't just go do it willy nilly because they feel like it today.

                            Undercover is undercover man. I know I would not want anything identifying me when I walk up to some brick throwing dingleberry millennial Marxist who organized violence. I would roll up on that clown in a van and grab him, rudely.
                            Under clear authorization to do so through the judicial branch. You can't just do it willy nilly because they feel like it. And to the extent they can, they are wandering into clear violations of the constitution. There has been a good deal of debate since 911 over this. We are gradually moving more and more towards policies and mechanisms that violate our core principles and putting more and more power in the president's hands. little step by little step. This action by Trump is a big step in that same direction.

                            In fact, I have these people in mind. The store owners who had their business looted, and the ones who had theirs burned to the ground, and the others who need to replace all their windows, and the widows of those who were murdered.
                            I agree those are bad things, and those that did those actions must be held accountable, and those that refuse to hold them accountable must also be held accountable. But firstly I disagree that a secretive national police force cobbled together from disparate organizations under the command of an unconfirmed presidential appointee beholden ONLY to the president is a legitimate means of accomplishing that goal. Secondarily, I believe this is more political stunt that an actual effort to restore law and order. And third, they have completely failed to do so, and made the situation worse.

                            I think of them first, not these violent clowns.
                            I think most of the folks around he like to call that 'virtue signalling', but I hate that term and will take you at your word.

                            It too care about them more than the violent clowns that have committed those acts. At the same time, I am not willing to allow actions that are more like those of Putin or some authoritarian regime or the establishing of a national police more fitting of such governments to be inserted under the guise of 'protecting' those same people.

                            If none committed violence and rioting, we wouldn't have anything to talk about here, other than changing police procedure and training.

                            Can't get there, too much violence. I've even heard sensible liberals who have said that they are short circuiting their message with violence. Is there not a liberal on this board who agrees?
                            It may well be that much of the violence are ultra-conservatives or anarchists or liberal extremists undermining the message of the majority peaceful protest. We'll likely never know, but we do know that extremes on both sides would rather create chaos than allow legitimate peaceful protest and change to occur.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              I don't hate, Jim.
                              I don't hate Trump, I don't hate you, I don't hate the federal officers in Portland.... I'm just not a hater.
                              As the old adage goes, your actions (the tone and character of the posts you write) speak louder than your words ("I'm not a hater").

                              If you want that phrase to be believable CP, then abandon all attempts to demonize and belittle those you disagree with. Take the hateful speech out of your posts, and it will perhaps become plausible that you are not a hater.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                As the old adage goes, your actions (the tone and character of the posts you write) speak louder than your words ("I'm not a hater").

                                If you want that phrase to be believable CP, then abandon all attempts to demonize and belittle those you disagree with. Take the hateful speech out of your posts, and it will perhaps become plausible that you are not a hater.

                                Oh, my word.

                                Your hypocrisy is unbounded.


                                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                                Comment

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