How do you attempt to rationalise with the completely irrational?

[JimL]

Jim it doesn't matter, God's say so is enough because like our say so that is all there is.

Well if it doesn't matter then your argument is kaput. The difference being is that morality, being relative to human beings and human society, our say so is based upon human reason.

[seer]

Well if it doesn't matter then your argument is kaput. The difference being is that morality, being relative to human beings and human society, our say so is based upon human reason.

Jim whose humans reason? The Stalinist, the Maoist? The Hutu? You are not making sense. And we were not talking about morality or moral good as you said. The question we were dealing with was why was our survival a good. And you have nothing but our say so.

[Stoic]

I don't see how science can discover truth or reality if you can not trust the LONC to be absolute. Everything we think we know, in principle, can be completely wrong.

Whether or not we trust the LONC to be absolute, everything we think we know, in principle, can be completely wrong. But there are some beliefs we can have more confidence in than others.



ps I'm going to try to stay away from this thread for a while. I seem to get more 500 errors when I'm working with the very long threads.

[Whateverman]

s I'm going to try to stay away from this thread for a while. I seem to get more 500 errors when I'm working with the very long threads.

I can't say for sure, but I believe the problem is site-wide. You'll get a couple different errors regardless of thread size/length.

At least, I know *I* have.

[JimL]

Jim whose humans reason? The Stalinist, the Maoist? The Hutu?

That some people have no moral principles tells you nothing about morality.

You are not making sense. And we were not talking about morality or moral good as you said.

Well we've kind of been talking about both because of your confusion concerning "good" and "moral good." We consider survival to be good in the same sense that we consider chocolate ice cream to be good, but neither has anything to do with morality or moral choices.

The question we were dealing with was why was our survival a good. And you have nothing but our say so.

Yep, that's why survival is considered "good" because it is our desire to survive. It's also our desire to be healthy, to be happy, to not suffer physically or psychological. Morality is objective (good or evil) with respect to those common desires.

[seer]

Whether or not we trust the LONC to be absolute, everything we think we know, in principle, can be completely wrong. But there are some beliefs we can have more confidence in than others.

What belief do you have confidence in and why. Given your view of the LONC.

ps I'm going to try to stay away from this thread for a while. I seem to get more 500 errors when I'm working with the very long threads.

OK...

[seer]

Well we've kind of been talking about both because of your confusion concerning "good" and "moral good." We consider survival to be good in the same sense that we consider chocolate ice cream to be good, but neither has anything to do with morality or moral choices.

You wanted to mover from moral questions (which also relies on say so) so I accommodated you...

Yep, that's why survival is considered "good" because it is our desire to survive. It's also our desire to be healthy, to be happy, to not suffer physically or psychological. Morality is objective (good or evil) with respect to those common desires.

Thank you - based on our say so.

[JimL]

You wanted to mover from moral questions (which also relies on say so) so I accommodated you...

No I didn't, I was just explaining the difference to you between good and morally good.

Thank you - based on our say so.

It's also based on your say so, or do you consider it "good" to die, to be unhappy, to suffer physically or psychologically?

[seer]

No I didn't, I was just explaining the difference to you between good and morally good.

And like I said what one considers good or morally good are both based on say so.

It's also based on your say so, or do you consider it "good" to die, to be unhappy, to suffer physically or psychologically?

Right - say so! Thanks for making my point.

[Whateverman]

So you can't be certain that you exist?

Solipsism exists for a reason.

So no.

[seer]

Solipsism exists for a reason.

So no.

Well in Solipsism, I believe, you can know that you exist, the only thing that is known to exist. But I would have to say that Solipsism is probably the most logically justifiable position.

[JimL]

And like I said what one considers good or morally good are both based on say so.




Right - say so! Thanks for making my point.

Well, not exactly seer, morality is based on reason, not just any one persons say so. One can deny, or ignore reason in the same sense that you deny or ignore your objective standard/god.

The only difference is that you can't deal with the idea that there is no ultimate reward or punishment for violating the rules of behavior. You're the reason why human beings created gods.(the fear factor)

[seer]

Well, not exactly seer, morality is based on reason, not just any one persons say so. One can deny, or ignore reason in the same sense that you deny or ignore your objective standard/god.

Again Jim, whose reason? Even those are say so. Your reasoning is not the Maoist's reasoning, or the Jihadist's reasoning.

[JimL]

Well in Solipsism, I believe, you can know that you exist, the only thing that is known to exist. But I would have to say that Solipsism is probably the most logically justifiable position.

Not necessarily, in solipsism there would only be a mind, not necessarily your mind, and all else would be the imagined productions within that mind.

[seer]

Not necessarily, in solipsism there would only be a mind, not necessarily your mind, and all else would be the imagined productions within that mind.

Well whose mind other than my own would I have?

solipsism
: a theory holding that the self can know nothing but its own modifications and that the self is the only existent thing