Originally posted by seer
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
How do you attempt to rationalise with the completely irrational?
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostRight,"the self", not necessarily your self.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostI think you're just the figment of my imagination.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostRight, there would need to be one mind, everything else existing within it.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostWhat belief do you have confidence in and why. Given your view of the LONC.
You seem to have it in your head that if the LONC is not absolute, then the opposite must be true, and thus the negation of every true statement must also be true. But that is not the case, as has been shown by the existence of paraconsistent logic.
So if I say the sun exists, you can't say that therefore the sun doesn't exist, because that doesn't follow. If you want to claim that the sun doesn't exist, you have to show it.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Stoic View PostThe LONC does not have to be absolute in order for some statements to be true and not false.
You seem to have it in your head that if the LONC is not absolute, then the opposite must be true, and thus the negation of every true statement must also be true. But that is not the case, as has been shown by the existence of paraconsistent logic.
So if I say the sun exists, you can't say that therefore the sun doesn't exist, because that doesn't follow. If you want to claim that the sun doesn't exist, you have to show it.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostBased on what? How would you know?
If you say that therefore John is not taller than Bob, you can't prove it. In fact, I can prove your statement false by measuring their heights. I don't need the LONC to prove the negation false.
I still don't think that paraconsistent logic is valid, and there are others who agree. Besides I have yet to see how it applies in a real world situation.
Keep in mind that if you are using the absoluteness of the LONC as an argument for God, it's not enough to merely convince yourself that you are correct.
There is the problem - you said it is possible for the sun to exist and not exist at the same moment.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Stoic View PostIf I say John is taller than Bob, I can prove it by measuring their heights.
If you say that therefore John is not taller than Bob, you can't prove it. In fact, I can prove your statement false by measuring their heights. I don't need the LONC to prove the negation false.
The fact that you cannot imagine the possibility of a true contradiction does not mean there can't be one, especially when there are other people who can.
Keep in mind that if you are using the absoluteness of the LONC as an argument for God, it's not enough to merely convince yourself that you are correct.
Did I?Last edited by seer; 08-11-2020, 12:36 PM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostBut the fact is John is either taller than Bob or not. If not why can't John be both taller and shorter than Bob? If you believe true contradictions can exist?
Right I can not imagine that John is both taller and shorter than Bob. Failure of imagination on my part.
You don't "believe." And "I'm no expert, but I would think not" and "not according to classic logic." These are equivocations, or a failure of imagination on your part? If true contradictions can exist where does it end? How would we know where they apply?
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View Postmaybe he can give us an example of such a contradiction?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostI have asked him a few times now. They can point to the liar's paradox, but that seems like a rhetorical device, I would like to see a real world example.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostIn order to 'break' the law of noncontradiction (A cannot be Not-A in the same way at the same time), it has to be something that is a real contradiction and still true, not some word game.
Last edited by seer; 08-11-2020, 01:15 PM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by Whateverman View PostBecause he's evil (or at least Not Good).
That's literally the only answer that's consistent with the available evidence.
then we would have to explain---whence comes good?
If God is evil...then one supposition might be that good comes from humanity...
If so...then humanity would be worthy of worship?
but...humanity would first need the ability to stop God's evil in order to be worthy of worship...?...
Some belief systems did attribute evil to the Gods and made sacrifices to "appease" the Gods. Some went so far as to make human/child sacrifices
Another option would be to suppose that good and bad are the fabric of reality and there is no God/s--neither good God nor bad God.
There might be a level of satisfaction in knowing that the laws of nature determine rains, droughts, earthquakes....etc ....but it can also strip humanity of purpose and meaning-making tools/myths.
Paradigms or belief -systems can make sense of a world that appears random. It can add purpose to human existence and this purpose can be used as a foundation to build ethico-moral systems.
for example, Buddhism posits that the purpose of humanity is to escape the cycle of Karma (re-incarnation) by accumulating merits (do good) and avoiding demerits (do bad).
Not all belief-systems are "good" (beneficial to humanity) Those paradigms that encourage towards Unity of humanity (brotherhood of all humanity) are more beneficial than those that presume divisions/tribalism of one group of humanity against another.
If reality consists of both good and bad---then humanity is also a partner in exacerbating the bad or in advancing the good. If this is the case...then having a world-view/paradigm that gives purpose and direction to humanity towards the "good" (values such as consideration, sharing, helping...etc) is better than not having one. ---why? because the search for meaning and identity are necessary "survival tools" and when we do not have "good" (beneficial to humanity) ones---we gravitate towards bad ones---such as hate groups, conspiracy theories, tribalism...etc....
One perspective on cults---
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NWIfiV1_XQ
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 01:19 PM
|
9 responses
56 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seanD
Yesterday, 11:58 PM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, Yesterday, 12:23 PM
|
7 responses
43 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seer
Today, 04:51 AM
|
||
Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 11:46 AM
|
16 responses
102 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Stoic
Yesterday, 04:44 PM
|
||
Started by seer, Yesterday, 04:37 AM
|
23 responses
109 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seanD
Yesterday, 02:49 PM
|
||
Started by seanD, 05-02-2024, 04:10 AM
|
27 responses
156 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seanD
Yesterday, 01:37 PM
|
Comment