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Thread: Your Voting Rights lost in the mail

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    Your Voting Rights lost in the mail

    Voter fraud is not the only thing that can happen with mail in voting the ballots could get lost in the mail as shown by a test done in Philadelphia PA by CBS News.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-1...nted-election/
    Many Americans are expected to vote by mail for the first time in November 2020 because of coronavirus concerns, so "CBS This Morning" sent out 100 mock ballots, simulating 100 voters in locations across Philadelphia, in an experiment to see how long one should give themselves to make sure their vote counts.

    "We're gonna see somewhere between probably 80 and 100 million voters receiving their ballot that way," former Arizona election official Tammy Patrick told "CBS This Morning" co-host Tony Dokoupil. Patrick is now a senior adviser for the elections program at Democracy Fund.

    For the experiment, a P.O. box was set up to represent a local election office. A few days after the initial ballots were mailed, 100 more were sent.

    The mock ballots used the same size envelope and same class of mail as real ballots, and even had mock votes folded in to approximate the weight. The biggest difference: real mail-in ballots have a logo that is meant to expedite them. "CBS This Morning" was unable to include those the trial.

    A week after initial ballots were sent, most ballots appeared to be missing from the P.O. box.

    "I don't see anything back there for you," a postal worker told Dokoupil when he received the mail. "That's all I have back there right now."

    After asking for a manager and explaining the situation to them, the votes were found.

    "They had them somewhere else," the postal worker said.


    even worse
    from the above source
    Out of the initial batch mailed a week earlier, 97 out of 100 votes had arrived. Three simulated persons, or 3% of voters, were effectively disenfranchised by mail by giving their ballots a week to arrive. In a close election, 3% could be pivotal.

    Four days after mailing the second batch of mock ballots, 21% of the votes hadn't arrived.
    Last edited by RumTumTugger; 07-24-2020 at 05:22 PM.

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    Thanks for posting this. I wanted to post these recommendations but got distracted from starting a thread.

    I heard some recommendations for situations where mail-in ballots are being utilized, especially if you are conservative. One big part of the problem is that the outside envelope can show your political affiliation. Thus, selective misplacement of mail is possible.

    Wait until the last day of voting so that there is least chance of that vote counting early and leading to discoveries of boxes of provisional votes.

    If possible, place the ballot into a ballot-collection (or voting) place directly, instead of sending the ballot in.

    Submit your ballot in a leftist-dominated area so that they will be less watchful for conservative ballots.

    Not that precautions would be needed for the leftists... but if you are leftist you could just do the opposite of what was described.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    Thanks for posting this. I wanted to post these recommendations but got distracted from starting a thread.

    I heard some recommendations for situations where mail-in ballots are being utilized, especially if you are conservative. One big part of the problem is that the outside envelope can show your political affiliation. Thus, selective misplacement of mail is possible.

    Wait until the last day of voting so that there is least chance of that vote counting early and leading to discoveries of boxes of provisional votes.

    If possible, place the ballot into a ballot-collection (or voting) place directly, instead of sending the ballot in.

    Submit your ballot in a leftist-dominated area so that they will be less watchful for conservative ballots.

    Not that precautions would be needed for the leftists... but if you are leftist you could just do the opposite of what was described.
    all good suggestions but as for the 2nd it will not be possible for those area's like my Mom's and Brothers with mail in only ballots not polling places at all been that way for last 3 or 4 elections

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    Ballots getting lost in the mail isn't great, but there seems every reason to assume it's going to be statistically random, hence it won't affect election results because each party will lose votes in proportion to their number of voters.

    Voting by mail has been done for many years in many different countries and many US states. Most of people in the Trump administration have voted by mail at some point in their lives. It's generally considered a tried and tested, safe system. (Unlike say, electronic voting machines, which are considered radioactive in terms of election fraud danger levels)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Ballots getting lost in the mail isn't great, but there seems every reason to assume it's going to be statistically random, hence it won't affect election results because each party will lose votes in proportion to their number of voters.
    The U.S post office has stated it can't handle the load that they expect. So you are ok with random people being disenfransed I'm not Starlight. Besides elections are not by nature supposed to be decided randomly and I am definitely not ok with that. there may be a way to make it so the post office can handle the load and make it safe but not this election they should wait for the 2022 or 2020 elections to get all the bugs out. not do it in such a short amount of time .

    Voting by mail has been done for many years in many different countries and many US states. Most of people in the Trump administration have voted by mail at some point in their lives. It's generally considered a tried and tested, safe system. (Unlike say, electronic voting machines, which are considered radioactive in terms of election fraud danger levels)
    as noted above voting by mail has not been done here in the U.S. to the extent they plan for here. and yes people from Trump or anyone else's administration have voted using Absentee ballots due to the fact that they do not work where their primary residence is. btw Absentee and mail in are 2 different animals here. Absentee ballots have to be requested and you have to prove you are registered to vote and are who you say you are, mail in ballots are sent out with not a care as to whether you still live at the address listed. and here in California they are sending mail in ballots to all addresses not just registered voters the California authorities have even said they can't guarantee that Illegal aliens(citizens of a different country) will not be allowed vote ,talk about voter fraud how would you like it if say citizens from India voted in your elections for your national leaders hmm? As for mail in votes being safe from voter fraud give me a break there have been numerous reports of post office workers from both sides hiding boxes of mail in ballots from places that were predominantly for the others side. In fact here in California non family members have been allowed to go picking up absentee ballots from at random to drop off at designated drop off points which can lead to some major voting fraud if they go into area's they know vote for the other party and sort of drop them in say a garbage can or dumpster in fact we are trying to get a law here in California to stop that and allow only family members or those designated by the person to take the ballot to the drop off point but our Democrat Governor is fighting that gee I wonder why. You are wrong there is just as much opportunity if not more chances for voter fraud with an extensive mail in ballot election

    btw I work the election i'm one of those that sits at the polls and help facilitate(make sure things go smoothly) the vote and with what I experienced on the primary this year doe not give me any kind of assurance that mail in voting is safe and error free. I.E. people who didn't request mail in getting absentee ballots, those who requested not getting them, and then those who are listed as requesting when they didn't not even getting the so called mail in ballot they requested, as well as unasked for changes in party of choice which isn't so bad in the general but for the Primary is disenfranchisement where you don't get to choose the person you want to represent you from your party come the General election. And don't get me started on what keeps happening to my Mother in a county that has gone strictly mail in voting she has to fight them every election to get her back on the right list as a live voter she is not dead and they keep putting her on that list and does not get her ballots. Mail in voting is not as safe as you think it is.
    Last edited by RumTumTugger; 07-25-2020 at 11:01 AM.

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    apparently Starlight is ok with 21% of the people who vote not getting their votes counted in an election as important as this one. is anyone else ok with that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Ballots getting lost in the mail isn't great, but there seems every reason to assume it's going to be statistically random, hence it won't affect election results because each party will lose votes in proportion to their number of voters.
    Last edited by RumTumTugger; 07-30-2020 at 02:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RumTumTugger View Post
    apparently Starlight is ok with 21% of the people who vote not getting their votes counted in an election as important as this one. is anyone else ok with that?
    I don't see anything in his post that says he's "ok" with it. I think mail in voting is the least worst option right now. We're in a pandemic; many locations in cities have had polling locations cut because of budget cuts, and there will be lines. We don't need to force medically vulnerable (or people who tested positive) people into disease vectors. Mail in voting is definitely not perfect, but it's worked for overseas military for years, so it has its place. Having said that, I plan on voting in person myself. I don't trust the postal service enough, having worked there for years... and my neighborhood's carrier is terrible.

    I do disagree with Starlight's assertion that problems are likely to be statistically random because any problems with them are likely to happen with an individual carrier or post office, most of which are going to skew heavily in one direction or the other based on how neighborhoods work.
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    Here's What Happened When a Reporter Experimented with Mail-In Ballots

    Here's What Happened When a Reporter Experimented with Mail-In Ballots



    Because of the Wuhan coronavirus, many states are opting to vote by mail. The goal is to keep people from flocking to the polls and creating large crowds. Conservatives have frequently talked about the issue of voter fraud and the potential for votes to become lost or stolen.

    A reporter from WRDW in Pennsylvania decided to conduct an experiment. The reporter's team set up a PO Box and mailed numerous sets of fake ballots all across Philadelphia. The idea was to simulate people returning ballots to the local election office. They initially mailed 100 mock ballots. Two days later, they mailed another 100 ballots. The PO box was checked a week later.

    When the reporter opened up the PO box, there was a slip saying the box owner had to pick up the mail from behind the counter. When the reporter went to retrieve the mail, the postmaster told him there was nothing back there.

    "I don't see anything there for you," the woman behind the counter said.

    The reporter eventually talked to a manager, explained what they were doing and suddenly she found a box of mock ballots that were "somewhere else."

    As the reporter went through the mail, it was discovered they obtained two pieces of someone else's mail, including a birthday card.

    The worst part: 21 percent of all the mock ballots hadn't materialized after four days. The first batch, which had been sent out a week prior, also had some ballots missing.

    "So out of our 100 ballots, 97 arrived, which sounds pretty good, unless you consider the fact that means that three people that tried to vote by mail in our mock election were, in fact, disenfranchised by mail," the reporter stated.

    Three percent may not sound like a lot, but it can be pivotal, especially when elections are close.

    The other issue: 24 states allow voters to request ballots less than a week before the election, meaning they're not going to make it back in time to be counted.

    And when the reporter talked with people in the community, quite a few shared concerns about their ballots "getting lost in the mail."

    This is proof that in-person voting must happen and the integrity of the election is at stake. Democrats say they want proof, here it is. There's not much more solid evidence than this experiment. If it's happening in one city, it's almost guaranteed to be happening in places across the nation.....

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    tWebber Ronson's Avatar
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    If Democrats are the ones encouraging mail-in ballots, and those ballot arrivals are unreliable, then what's the problem? Republicans aren't likely to vote that way.

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