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I - an atheist - am morally better than the Christian God

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  • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post


    But how can God show mercy, unless there is a need for mercy?
    Why does God NEED to show mercy? Especially as it requires humankind being set-up for failure in order to achieve his goal of being merciful - like some sort of divine ego-trip.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
      Whether God's choice was morally superior to mine or not, He was willing to drown an entire planet full of people to achieve mine; He wasn't content with his own. That right there is a solid indication of which choice he preferred. And as we're taught, whatever God wants represents the greatest Good.

      [/FONT]
      That's very easy to dispense with. Instead of not allowing to be born those people who will chose evil, do the same for people who will bring evil into the world, directly or indirectly. That has the added benefit of not requiring God to be an abortionist.
      And the disadvantage that by doing that, Whatevermangod has removed free will, by pre-emptively destroying any who would ever choose other than what He desires.
      ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
        And the disadvantage that by doing that, Whatevermangod has removed free will, by pre-emptively destroying any who would ever choose other than what He desires.
        But, only with respect to causing the unnecessary suffering of others aka evil according to Wn's concept. You'd still have free will otherwise.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Sets you free from what? Do you mean he changes you from a wind-up toy to a free willed being who is no longer a slave to sin.
          Yes, free from sinning.

          And yet you still sin, right?
          That's true, and that puts me back in bondage, until I repent.

          Blessings,
          Lee
          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
            Originally posted by lee_merrill
            But how can God show mercy, unless there is a need for mercy?
            Why does God NEED to show mercy?
            No, the need is that we need mercy, not that God needs to show mercy.

            Especially as it requires humankind being set-up for failure in order to achieve his goal of being merciful - like some sort of divine ego-trip.
            I don't think it's an ego trip, God bears sin, and sin cost Jesus death on a cross. This is what it cost to show us mercy.

            Blessings,
            Lee
            "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
              Yes, free from sinning.


              That's true, and that puts me back in bondage, until I repent.

              Blessings,
              Lee
              You're not making a lick of sense with respect to Romans 9:14-24, Lee.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                And the disadvantage that by doing that, Whatevermangod has removed free will, by pre-emptively destroying any who would ever choose other than what He desires.
                Again, since the person never existed, there was no free will to be removed...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                  Again, since the person never existed, there was no free will to be removed...
                  No reasonable person would call a world where only people who make the right choices are allowed to exist a "free will world".

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                    No, the need is that we need mercy, not that God needs to show mercy.
                    An omniscient creator god by virtue of being omniscient, would know even before he made you, precisely what you will choose. And, as Whateverman noted, an omniscient God can never have the power to change your mind because his omniscience overrides his omnipotence. So, if we “need mercy”, it’s on God that we need it.

                    I don't think it's an ego trip, God bears sin, and sin cost Jesus death on a cross. This is what it cost to show us mercy.
                    When are you supposed to have made your sinful choices if God knew in advance, before you existed, what they would be?
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                      No reasonable person would call a world where only people who make the right choices are allowed to exist a "free will world".
                      Take it up with the molinists and calvinists. They believe that God choosing which possible world to instantiate doesn't negate the free will of the people in it.
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        Take it up with the molinists and calvinists. They believe that God choosing which possible world to instantiate doesn't negate the free will of the people in it.
                        I don't think most Calvinists are known for being stalwart defenders of free will in the first place. But God choosing which possible world to instantiate is not really the same thing as God choosing to instantiate a possible world where evil people are not allowed to exist in the first place.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                          I don't think most Calvinists are known for being stalwart defenders of free will in the first place. But God choosing which possible world to instantiate is not really the same thing as God choosing to instantiate a possible world where evil people are not allowed to exist in the first place.
                          I read the OP suggestion as saying that God should choose to instantiate the possible world in which none of the free will beings choose to do evil.
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                            I don't think most Calvinists are known for being stalwart defenders of free will in the first place. But God choosing which possible world to instantiate is not really the same thing as God choosing to instantiate a possible world where evil people are not allowed to exist in the first place.
                            For one thing, and contrary to the biblical view, there is no such thing as evil people per se, there are just people who do evil things. If people themselves were evil, as the bible contends, then the cause of evil would be god who created them. But god, is supposedly going to change all those evil people who believe in him to be good people when he resurrects them and clothes them in a new spiritual body. So, according to the bible, the good god is the cause of evil, but he could have just created man good in the first place, because that's what it is said he is going to do for those evil ones that believe in him in the next life.

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                            • What if, in order to maximize the number of people who choose good over evil, evil people have to exist? Perhaps experiencing the evil around them would cause more people to choose to do good, than to just have only those who choose to do good be born.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                What if, in order to maximize the number of people who choose good over evil, evil people have to exist? Perhaps experiencing the evil around them would cause more people to choose to do good, than to just have only those who choose to do good be born.
                                But what difference would that make if god still has to re-make you in the next life to insure that you only choose good. If he can do that, then why not just do that in the first place?

                                Comment

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