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Thread: I - an atheist - am morally better than the Christian God

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whateverman View Post
    Here's why: I know how to rid the universe of evil without impacting the free will of its inhabitants. Even better, I will do this the instant I'm granted the ability to do so.

    The Christian God already has this ability, and refuses to use it.

    This makes me morally superior to him.

    ---

    The problem of evil can be solved instantly in this way: prevent the birth of anyone who will freely choose to do evil.

    This avoids forcing people to make choices they wouldn't make themselves. Free will conundrum resolved, and all evil stopped; the universe becomes as sinless as heaven, and the need for Hell is gone.

    ---

    How do I apply for the promotion to godhood?
    There are several things wrong with your position.

    First: If you prevent the birth of anyone who freely chooses to do evil, no one would be born.

    Second: There are people who do evil who also do good, preventing their birth would eliminate the good they would do.The reason God gave us free will is so we would willing choose good over evil.

    Third: And, preventing their birth would not allow repentance. People do change and learn from their mistakes.

    Fourth: Since you willingly do evil, if God preventing your birth you wouldn't be here to make any posts.
    Last edited by Christian3; 07-31-2020 at 07:09 AM.

  2. Amen Sparko, Christianbookworm amen'd this post.
  3. #172
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    duplicate post deleted.

  4. #173
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    If you need be re-made to be perfect and can no longer choose evil then not choosing evil isn't really a choice. That's Wm's idea, create only people who can't choose evil, i.e to not choose to cause unnecessary suffering.
    Because in his scenario, those being born that way have no choice. If I were to say "I give up my choice to sin" then THAT is a free will decision. I am free to not give up my ability to sin also.


    Why do you think that? Experiencing evil doesn't stop you from doing it?
    Yes, it does. If you see how much damage sin can cause when you do it, or if you see others doing it and are the victim of it, you will hate sin and not want to do it. Seeing the misery and sorrow sin causes in the world makes me hate sin and do my best not to sin. Right now because of my sin nature, I am unable to completely stop, but when I have my glorified body, I will be no longer be under the curse.

  5. Amen Christian3, Christianbookworm amen'd this post.
  6. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Because in his scenario, those being born that way have no choice. If I were to say "I give up my choice to sin" then THAT is a free will decision. I am free to not give up my ability to sin also.
    So what, when you're so called "born again" in the afterlife sense, you won't have that choice either. Makes no sense, Sparko. Besides, according to the Bible, Romans 9:14-24, you aren't choosing anything anyway, you're simply a wind-up toy designed by god to do his will, not you're own.

    Yes, it does. If you see how much damage sin can cause when you do it, or if you see others doing it and are the victim of it, you will hate sin and not want to do it. Seeing the misery and sorrow sin causes in the world makes me hate sin and do my best not to sin. Right now because of my sin nature, I am unable to completely stop, but when I have my glorified body, I will be no longer be under the curse.
    If you hate it so much then why do you keep doing it? Is it because god created you to do what you hate doing? Ask yourself this question: What if god created you to only desire good in the first place? What difference would it make to you that it wasn't your choice to only be able to do good. Zero difference!

  7. #175
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Would you eat poop now? When you were a baby, you might have played with poop or gotten into other things you wouldn't get into now. Sin will be as unappealing as eating dung. No offense to dung beetles.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  8. #176
    tWebber Whateverman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    There are several things wrong with your position.

    First: If you prevent the birth of anyone who freely chooses to do evil, no one would be born.
    That's your opinion. I admit it's a possibility, but I don't accept it as necessarily true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Second: There are people who do evil who also do good, preventing their birth would eliminate the good they would do.The reason God gave us free will is so we would willing choose good over evil.
    This isn't a problem. This thread proposes a solution to the problem of evil which wont violate anyone's free will; it doesn't propose to create a universe which in every way is better than this one.

    Also, Christian scripture spends a lot of time instructing us on how not to behave; it doesn't spend nearly as much on how we should behave. In other words, God seems to think Evil is more important than Good. If so, i submit that removing evil from the universe is more important than keeping good n it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Third: And, preventing their birth would not allow repentance. People do change and learn from their mistakes.
    Sure, but people who never existed don't need learning or repentance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Fourth: Since you willingly do evil, if God preventing your birth you wouldn't be here to make any posts.
    You willingly do evil too, so this is just as much your problem as mine. However, it's irrelevant to the discussion...
    I can solve the problem of evil without interfering with anyone's free will. So can your God, but he refuses. This is why I'm His moral superior.

  9. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    There are several things wrong with your position.

    First: If you prevent the birth of anyone who freely chooses to do evil, no one would be born.
    So what, there not being born, there being created, so create them to freely choose to do good. Thats what christians believe heaven is all about anyway, God has to re-create you that way.
    Second: There are people who do evil who also do good, preventing their birth would eliminate the good they would do.The reason God gave us free will is so we would willing choose good over evil.
    If both god and you wanted free will then neither of you would want it taken away in the after-life.
    Third: And, preventing their birth would not allow repentance. People do change and learn from their mistakes.
    In your heaven there would be no repentance or need to learn from mistakes anyway, so what's the difference?
    Fourth: Since you willingly do evil, if God preventing your birth you wouldn't be here to make any posts.
    Sure he would, he just wouldn't be choosing to do evil. The notion of the earthly crucible is ridiculous. If god has to re-make you to do only good in the after-life anyway, then why didn't he just do it in the first place?

  10. #178
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christianbookworm View Post
    Sin will be as unappealing as eating dung. No offense to dung beetles.
    WHY would sin will be as unappealing as eating dung in heaven as opposed to now, and how do you know?
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  11. #179
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    So what, when you're so called "born again" in the afterlife sense, you won't have that choice either. Makes no sense, Sparko. Besides, according to the Bible, Romans 9:14-24, you aren't choosing anything anyway, you're simply a wind-up toy designed by god to do his will, not you're own.


    If you hate it so much then why do you keep doing it? Is it because god created you to do what you hate doing? Ask yourself this question: What if god created you to only desire good in the first place? What difference would it make to you that it wasn't your choice to only be able to do good. Zero difference!
    Our natures are inherited from Adam who sinned. God didn't create me to desire sin. Adam could choose to sin or not to sin. He chose to sin. Currently because of our adam, we are like crack babies. born addicted to sin. Christianity is rehab. heaven is being free of our addiction.

  12. #180
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whateverman View Post
    First: If you prevent the birth of anyone who freely chooses to do evil, no one would be born
    .That's your opinion. I admit it's a possibility, but I don't accept it as necessarily true.
    all you need to do is show one person, other than Jesus who never sinned, never told a lie, never did anything wrong.

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