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I - an atheist - am morally better than the Christian God

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
    Here's why: I know how to rid the universe of evil without impacting the free will of its inhabitants. Even better, I will do this the instant I'm granted the ability to do so.

    The Christian God already has this ability, and refuses to use it.

    This makes me morally superior to him.

    ---

    The problem of evil can be solved instantly in this way: prevent the birth of anyone who will freely choose to do evil.

    This avoids forcing people to make choices they wouldn't make themselves. Free will conundrum resolved, and all evil stopped; the universe becomes as sinless as heaven, and the need for Hell is gone.

    ---

    How do I apply for the promotion to godhood?
    Apparently superior in intelligence as well. Not sure though, wouldn't creating them in a way that prevents them from "freely choosing" evil, mean that they were created in a way that "determines" them to do good?

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      The problem of evil is evil cannot exist without good. Evil cannot counter the Infinite Good.
      Evil cannot exist without good? Why is that? I'm pretty sure that whatever your argument is, the reverse could also be made.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
        I'm saying that if Bob(an evil jerk that kicks puppies and children) never existed, then what about his daughter Jane(nice person that will run many genuine charities that help children and animals)? How can Jane exist, unless Bob exists to be her biological father and donate half of her DNA?
        That ones easy. Evil Bob wouldn't exist in the first place if god prevents people who would choose evil to be born.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
          First, you will need to define "evil."

          IMO, "evil" is selfishness, which covers a lot of ground, and everyone has it and has acted upon it to some degree. So to prevent the birth of anyone who will choose evil eliminates everyone.
          No, I believe that would only eliminate selfish people.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            What if He wants to do the whole Hero rescues the damsel in distress story?
            So he made everyone suffer in the first place just so he could save them? That's a pretty dark twist on a 'savior complex'.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
              The problem of evil can be solved instantly in this way: prevent the birth of anyone who will freely choose to do evil.
              I realise you are proposing this tongue-in-cheek, but would note that what you are proposing to do (on elevation to godhood) is eugenics.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by David Hayward View Post
                I realise you are proposing this tongue-in-cheek
                I respectfully disagree. I'm being serious.

                Originally posted by David Hayward View Post
                but would note that what you are proposing to do (on elevation to godhood) is eugenics.
                Interesting. I think you're wrong for technical reasons. A rough definition of the term:
                the study of how to arrange reproduction within a human population to increase the occurrence of heritable characteristics regarded as desirable.

                God preventing certain people from being born isn't about reproduction. At all. Indeed, once an "evil-free" person is born thru this process, there's nothing that ensures his/her progeny will be allowed to be born as well. Their parents will never commit evil, but the process doesn't make it more likely that the child will never commit evil. If this was eugenics, the offspring should be more likely to not choose evil.

                I agree that my process sounds like eugenics, but a few minutes spent in investigation reveals that it's not.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  wouldn't creating them in a way that prevents them from "freely choosing" evil, mean that they were created in a way that "determines" them to do good?
                  You could argue that, but I'd say it just increases the likelihood; there'd be nothing which prevents lazy people from being born. Or someone who watches crimes occur and does nothing to stop them, etc.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by David Hayward View Post
                    I realise you are proposing this tongue-in-cheek, but would note that what you are proposing to do (on elevation to godhood) is eugenics.
                    Eugenics got a bad rap in the 20th century for a huge variety of good reasons. The people doing it had idiotic views on what made for better humans and why, and their barbarity and genocide in working toward their goals is rightly condemned by all.

                    That doesn't, however, mean that improving humans, is in and of itself a bad idea. The science of genetic engineering is very nearly at the point where arbitrary changes can be made to the human genome. The immediate consequences of that will be a cure for all genetic diseases. It's pretty hard to label a cure for so many diseases as 'immoral' or wiping out so many diseases as bad.

                    If sinfulness is to be viewed as an illness in humanity, as Christianity typically sees it as, then curing it (through Christ, or through selective soul birth as Whateverman is suggesting) seems a great good. His suggestion doesn't have any murders or any violation of free will, or any down side. He is proposing making humanity better and the world better without harming anyone in any way.
                    Last edited by Starlight; 07-26-2020, 02:31 AM.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Why am I not surprised that the guy who supports the killing of newborn babies weeks to months after their birth is also a fan of eugenics.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Why am I not surprised that the guy who supports the killing of newborn babies weeks to months after their birth is also a fan of eugenics.
                        Doesn't being a troll get boring after a while? Doesn't misrepresenting people's views ever weigh on your so-called Christianity?
                        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Whateverman View Post

                          The problem of evil can be solved instantly in this way: prevent the birth of anyone who will freely choose to do evil.
                          Except that people aren’t predestined from birth to choose good or evil. They are socialized by their environment, especially during their formative years, to adhere to the rules of the community - essential for the survival of a social species such as us Homo sapiens.
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            So he made everyone suffer in the first place just so he could save them? That's a pretty dark twist on a 'savior complex'.
                            Eternal salvation for the good and eternal damnation for the bad is a very “dark” myth all round, clearly the product of a more primitive era.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              Eternal salvation for the good and eternal damnation for the bad is a very “dark” myth all round, clearly the product of a more primitive era.
                              Indeed a variant of the the OP can be applied to the idea of people suffering eternal damnation... if I were God, then my doing pretty much anything other than choosing to torture people for eternity, would seem a lot more moral than the Christian God.

                              Theologians often try to get around this by implying God has no choice or that something about the damned themselves causes their suffering. But the thing is, if God can create a world like the one we live in/on at the moment, why can't he make a similar quality world for the damned in the afterlife? If he chooses for the quality of life for the damned in the afterlife to be lower for them than it is in this world, that's on him.
                              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                                Here's why: I know how to rid the universe of evil without impacting the free will of its inhabitants. Even better, I will do this the instant I'm granted the ability to do so.

                                The Christian God already has this ability, and refuses to use it.

                                This makes me morally superior to him.

                                ---

                                The problem of evil can be solved instantly in this way: prevent the birth of anyone who will freely choose to do evil.

                                This avoids forcing people to make choices they wouldn't make themselves. Free will conundrum resolved, and all evil stopped; the universe becomes as sinless as heaven, and the need for Hell is gone.

                                ---

                                How do I apply for the promotion to godhood?
                                What is evil in your view?

                                Comment

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