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I - an atheist - am morally better than the Christian God

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Our natures are inherited from Adam who sinned. God didn't create me to desire sin. Adam could choose to sin or not to sin. He chose to sin. Currently because of our adam, we are like crack babies. born addicted to sin. Christianity is rehab. heaven is being free of our addiction.
    That's silly. Our natures, assuming we were created by a god, were inherited so to speak, from the creator of Adam, not from Adam. Addicts are always susceptible to relapse which is why in christianity god has to recreate us, thus making us unable to sin or according to Wm's concept, making us unable to cause unnecessary suffering.

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    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      all you need to do is show one person, other than Jesus who never sinned, never told a lie, never did anything wrong.
      How do you know Jesus never sinned?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
        How do you know Jesus never sinned?
        The bible.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          That's silly. Our natures, assuming we were created by a god, were inherited so to speak, from the creator of Adam, not from Adam. Addicts are always susceptible to relapse which is why in christianity god has to recreate us, thus making us unable to sin or according to Wm's concept, making us unable to cause unnecessary suffering.
          your nature is inherited from your parents. That's how it works.

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          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            your nature is inherited from your parents. That's how it works.
            And Adams nature was inherited by his parent. That's how it works.

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            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              The bible.
              So then, you don't know.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                So then, you don't know.
                Jesus is recorded as saying "Who of you convicts me of sin?" (John 8:46). So if people knew of Jesus' sinning back in the gospel days, this would be instantly refuted.

                So there is evidence that Jesus was indeed, sinless.

                Blessings,
                Lee
                "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  The bible.
                  He cursed the poor fig tree for not being in fruit when he wanted something to eat. When he created the universe he must surely have decided the fruiting seasons of the fig and therefore known it would not be in fruit at that particular point in time.

                  He also engaged in a bout of vandalism as well as some assault and battery when he cleared the Temple.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

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                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    your nature is inherited from your parents. That's how it works.
                    Our "nature" has been shaped by natural selection over millions of years of evolution. It is programmed by genes and environmental pressures and we take our decisions either deterministically or randomly – but not completely freely.
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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                    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      He cursed the poor fig tree for not being in fruit when he wanted something to eat. When he created the universe he must surely have decided the fruiting seasons of the fig and therefore known it would not be in fruit at that particular point in time.
                      A fig tree produces small knobs which are call taqsh. They come before the figs and they are edible. If a fig tree has leaves and does not produce the edible knobs it will not have figs when fig season comes.

                      So when Jesus saw that the tree didn't have the knobs He knew it would not produce any figs that year.

                      Jesus is telling a parable. A parable is a story with a message.

                      The Old Testament uses the fig tree very often as a symbol of Israel.

                      Please see Jeremiah 8:13 and Jeremiah 29:15-19 and Hosea 9:10, 16 and Micah 7:1-4

                      A barren tree fig tree often symbolizes divine judgment on Israel because of her spiritual fruitlessness. Jesus' act illustrates God's judgment against earthly Israel for her fruitlessness.

                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      He also engaged in a bout of vandalism as well as some assault and battery when he cleared the Temple.
                      The Jews at that time sacrificed animals for atonement according to Jewish law and this was done at the temple. These sacrificial animals had to be perfect and without blemish. The Jews would bring the animals they thought perfect for sacrifice but the Rabbis would find something wrong the animal that they claimed made the animal unsuitable for sacrifice; it just wasn't perfect enough. The scam was that the Rabbis had unblemished animals that they would sell to the poor Jew whose animal was rejected in order to make money. It was quite a business and when Jesus saw this He was furious. This is what Jesus meant when He said "How dare you turn my Father's house into a market." The Temple was God's house!!

                      Jesus drove the animals out and the money changers followed the animals.

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                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                        Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                        There are several things wrong with your position.

                        First: If you prevent the birth of anyone who freely chooses to do evil, no one would be born.
                        That's your opinion. I admit it's a possibility, but I don't accept it as necessarily true.
                        all you need to do is show one person, other than Jesus who never sinned, never told a lie, never did anything wrong.
                        I don't need to do anything of the sort:
                        • Christians are the ones asserting that my idea would prevent humans from being born, so before I'm burdened with showing anything, their assertion needs to be supported. And given the disagreement amongst them about just how sinful the un/newly born are, I'd say you've got a prohibitively steep hill to climb.
                        • Even if my idea causes no one to be born, I've still created a sinless universe, free from evil - which reiterates my moral superiority over the Christian God.

                        Comment


                        • ... and as for Jesus being sin-free: ordering that someone's horse be stolen - and it being subsequently stolen - is theft. A sin, in the Christian worldview.

                          ps. anyone who argues that Jesus can't sin is rendering Christian morality relative and subjective. Don't go there :)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                            ... and as for Jesus being sin-free: ordering that someone's horse be stolen - and it being subsequently stolen - is theft. A sin, in the Christian worldview.

                            ps. anyone who argues that Jesus can't sin is rendering Christian morality relative and subjective. Don't go there :)
                            But if Jesus does it, it isn't a sin.

                            Comment


                            • The donkey was borrowed. It's no different than if some one had prearranged to burrow your bike and sent a friend to get it and you knew that the friend was actually getting it for the right person.

                              Disciple: We are here to burrow the donkey for Jesus.

                              Donkey owner: Here you go!
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                              • Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                                The donkey was borrowed. It's no different than if some one had prearranged to burrow your bike and sent a friend to get it and you knew that the friend was actually getting it for the right person.

                                Disciple: We are here to burrow the donkey for Jesus.

                                Donkey owner: Here you go!
                                Donkey not horse, you're right.

                                Scripture doesn't say anything about borrowing or even asking, though. Indeed, Luke 19: 29 - 36 makes it pretty clear that the horse is being taken by authority; it's not a request.

                                I respectfully understand and sympathize with the desire to interpret that the horse was happily lent/given to the disciples - but the bible doesn't say this. And the bible is pretty clear about not adding to God's Word...

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