Originally posted by Christianbookworm
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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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I - an atheist - am morally better than the Christian God
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Even worse, an omniscient God can never have the power to change your mind. Omniscience precludes omnipotence.Last edited by Whateverman; 07-27-2020, 11:57 PM.
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Originally posted by Whateverman View PostEven worse, an omniscient God can never have the power to change your mind. Omniscience precludes omnipotence.
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Originally posted by Whateverman View PostHere's why: I know how to rid the universe of evil without impacting the free will of its inhabitants. Even better, I will do this the instant I'm granted the ability to do so.
The Christian God already has this ability, and refuses to use it.
This makes me morally superior to him.
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The problem of evil can be solved instantly in this way: prevent the birth of anyone who will freely choose to do evil.
This avoids forcing people to make choices they wouldn't make themselves. Free will conundrum resolved, and all evil stopped; the universe becomes as sinless as heaven, and the need for Hell is gone.
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How do I apply for the promotion to godhood?
I would suggest that a God that would allow evil in order to bring about a greater good, is morally superior to a God who would eradicate evil, in order to preserve the lesser good.
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Originally posted by Whateverman View PostThat's your assumption, not mine. Do your argument a solid and go beyond merely asserting it, and then expecting us to agree.
You can't assert you are better than the Christian God and then change the rules of the game to suit yourself. If you are going to be better than the Christian God, then you have to solve the same problem the Christian God has with us: sin.
There has been exactly ONE person born who fits your criteria of "not choosing evil," Jesus Christ.
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Originally posted by Whateverman View PostThis is a direct consequence of the prepubescent reasoning that makes up most of the discipline you think of as "Christian apologetics".
Elevate the quality of your ridiculous dismissals of logic and common sense, and you'll suddenly hear criticism that - again - has risen to your level.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI'm not exactly sure what you mean by that, but I suspect you're taking issue my using a temporal term like "before" when discussing the knowledge of a timeless being, and I will concede that there are certain limitations in the English language and our own understanding of time that sometimes results in imperfect descriptions.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI am downgrading my age estimate of you to 14.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf you are going to "solve" the problem of morality as presented by Christianity and claim to be "better than the Christian God," then you are working within the paradigm of Christianity, which is based on "We are all sinners, every one" and sin is "evil"
You can't assert you are better than the Christian God and then change the rules of the game to suit yourself. If you are going to be better than the Christian God, then you have to solve the same problem the Christian God has with us: sin.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostIs it better to allow evil to exist, in order to allow some greater good to come of it, or to rid the world of all evil with the result that the resultant good is not as great as it could have been, had you done the former?
I would suggest that a God that would allow evil in order to bring about a greater good, is morally superior to a God who would eradicate evil, in order to preserve the lesser good.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIn fact he creates them specifically for those purposes, some people to reward, and some people to punish.
It describes the people as being robots, determined by god to do exactly what god determined them to do. Paul then describes god as being angry, angry at his own created beings for doing the evil that he engineered them to do. How silly! There goes your free will.
"Jesus replied, 'Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.' " (John 8:34)
If any of what Paul says there in Romans 9:14-24 is true, then his god, your god, is nothing but a child and we nothing but his wind-up toys. You're not good, not obedient, you have no agency, you're determined, determined to be gods wind-up toy for eternity.
"So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." (John 8:36)
Originally posted by WhatevermanGod doesn't need something for us to overcome in order to reward us.
But how can God show mercy, unless there is a need for mercy?
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostThat's correct, he is the potter, and we are the clay.
But I don't believe that people who are sinning have free will.
"Jesus replied, 'Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.' " (John 8:34)
No, I believe that those who are in Christ have real freedom.
"So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." (John 8:36)
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