Originally posted by lee_merrill
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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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I - an atheist - am morally better than the Christian God
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Originally posted by Whateverman View PostWhether God's choice was morally superior to mine or not, He was willing to drown an entire planet full of people to achieve mine; He wasn't content with his own. That right there is a solid indication of which choice he preferred. And as we're taught, whatever God wants represents the greatest Good.
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That's very easy to dispense with. Instead of not allowing to be born those people who will chose evil, do the same for people who will bring evil into the world, directly or indirectly. That has the added benefit of not requiring God to be an abortionist....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by MaxVel View PostAnd the disadvantage that by doing that, Whatevermangod has removed free will, by pre-emptively destroying any who would ever choose other than what He desires.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostSets you free from what? Do you mean he changes you from a wind-up toy to a free willed being who is no longer a slave to sin.
And yet you still sin, right?
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostOriginally posted by lee_merrillBut how can God show mercy, unless there is a need for mercy?
Especially as it requires humankind being set-up for failure in order to achieve his goal of being merciful - like some sort of divine ego-trip.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostNo, the need is that we need mercy, not that God needs to show mercy.I don't think it's an ego trip, God bears sin, and sin cost Jesus death on a cross. This is what it cost to show us mercy.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostNo reasonable person would call a world where only people who make the right choices are allowed to exist a "free will world"."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostTake it up with the molinists and calvinists. They believe that God choosing which possible world to instantiate doesn't negate the free will of the people in it.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostI don't think most Calvinists are known for being stalwart defenders of free will in the first place. But God choosing which possible world to instantiate is not really the same thing as God choosing to instantiate a possible world where evil people are not allowed to exist in the first place."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostI don't think most Calvinists are known for being stalwart defenders of free will in the first place. But God choosing which possible world to instantiate is not really the same thing as God choosing to instantiate a possible world where evil people are not allowed to exist in the first place.
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What if, in order to maximize the number of people who choose good over evil, evil people have to exist? Perhaps experiencing the evil around them would cause more people to choose to do good, than to just have only those who choose to do good be born.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostWhat if, in order to maximize the number of people who choose good over evil, evil people have to exist? Perhaps experiencing the evil around them would cause more people to choose to do good, than to just have only those who choose to do good be born.
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