I - an atheist - have an objective standard for Good

[Tassman]

As you can see, the problem for the atheist is not coming up with an objective moral standard or arguments against hedonism and anarchy but coming up with a reason why anybody else should care.

There’s no problem for ANY member of a community – atheist or theist – “coming up with an objective moral standard or arguments against hedonism and anarchy”. Maintaining ordered societies is how social species evolved to behave. We developed the capacity for empathy because recognizing the pain and hurt in others stops us, for the most part, from harming them. It helps us avoid killing or harming each other and allows us to value life and community.

[Sparko]

But what if they weren't acting in good faith, as none of you are when you sin, because as you say, you know right from wrong in your hearts. So long as you believe in Jesus as god then, and that he died for your sins, then your sins are already forgiven you, right?

Again, I don't know their hearts. David deliberately murdered Bathsheba's husband so he could have her. Yet, he repented and was forgiven. Mose murdered the Egyptian, and yet he was forgiven also. I assume if they didn't repent they would not have been saved.

[Sparko]

So, those atheists who were 'truly acting in good faith’ in their non-belief, will also be forgiven and enter heaven. That's nice.

You may be forgiven for those sins you commit that you did not know were wrong, but there is still plenty that you do know is wrong that you commit anyway. Unless you accept Christ you will face judgment for it.

Romans 2: 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

[Roy]

This is why some of us rather detest the tactic of breaking a post up and answering each sentence out of context....

Yes, you much prefer breaking off the first sentence, addressing that out of context, and completely ignoring the rest of the post.

[JimL]

Again, I don't know their hearts. David deliberately murdered Bathsheba's husband so he could have her. Yet, he repented and was forgiven. Mose murdered the Egyptian, and yet he was forgiven also. I assume if they didn't repent they would not have been saved.

So, when all of us non-believers get to the pearly gates and realize Jesus is god, can we all repent and be forgiven?

[Sparko]

So, when all of us non-believers get to the pearly gates and realize Jesus is god, can we all repent and be forgiven?

Hebrews 9:27

[Whateverman]

You would have to read them to see that they do.

Already did. This is my thread, remember?

They avoid the topic, like you're doing now.

Do you always require being spoonfed?

Do you always require being reminded to not be dishonest?


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If you were capable of addressing the subject under discussion, you would have done so by now.

[JimL]

Hebrews 9:27

I'll take that answer as evidence that you don't know and so are unable to answer the question directly.

[Tassman]

You may be forgiven for those sins you commit that you did not know were wrong, but there is still plenty that you do know is wrong that you commit anyway. Unless you accept Christ you will face judgment for it.

But, by your logic, if you in good faith do NOT accept Christ then God will still allow you through the pearly gates when you repent upon meeting Jesus. Just as for the same reason, he will allow Christians who in good faith got his objective morality wrong but repent. (e.g. slave owners).

[37818]

And we know God exists. Unless you want to deny what happened about 2000 years ago.

Well, the better answer to give is that we who are Christ's actually know God Himself, Romans 8:16, 1 John 4:7, John 17:3, John 14:6.

[JimL]

Well, the better answer to give is that we who are Christ's actually know God Himself, Romans 8:16, 1 John 4:7, John 17:3, John 14:6.

You're fooling yourself in the belief that you know god and that he exists. The idea that you know god exists in your head, just like when you're talking to yourself and believe you are talking to god.

[Tassman]

Well, the better answer to give is that we who are Christ's actually know God Himself, Romans 8:16, 1 John 4:7, John 17:3, John 14:6.

No, the "better answer to give" is that you are suffering from faith-based religious delusions. You don't "KNOW God", because there is no god to know. The god hypothesis is a superseded notion.

[Whateverman]

Well, the better answer to give is that we who are Christ's actually know God Himself

Then prove that you're Christ's.

Narrow is the gate...

[Sparko]

Already did. This is my thread, remember?

They avoid the topic, like you're doing now.


Do you always require being reminded to not be dishonest?


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If you were capable of addressing the subject under discussion, you would have done so by now.

Denial seems to be your only tactic. Such a shame.

[Sparko]

I'll take that answer as evidence that you don't know and so are unable to answer the question directly.

I take that as you being unable to look up a bible reference that actually answers your question.