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Thread: Why Liberals Arenít as Tolerant as They Think

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Why Liberals Arenít as Tolerant as They Think

    Why Liberals Arenít as Tolerant as They Think

    The political left might consider itself more open-minded than the right. But research shows that liberals are just as prejudiced against conservatives as conservatives are against liberals.

    By MATTHEW HUTSON May 09, 2017

    In March, students at Middlebury College disrupted a lecture by the conservative political scientist Charles Murray because they disagreed with some of his writings. Last month, the University of California, Berkeley, canceled a lecture by the conservative commentator Ann Coulter due to concerns for her safetyójust two months after uninviting the conservative writer Milo Yiannopoulos due to violent protests. Media outlets on the right have played up the incidents as evidence of rising close-mindedness on the left.

    For years, itís conservatives who have been branded as intolerant, often for good reason. But conservatives will tell you that liberals demonstrate their own intolerance, using the strictures of political correctness as a weapon of oppression. That became a familiar theme during the 2016 campaign. After the election, Sean McElwee, a policy analyst at the progressive group Demos Action, reported that Donald Trump had received his strongest support among Americans who felt that whites and Christians faced ďa great dealĒ of discrimination. Spencer Greenberg, a mathematician who runs a website for improving decision-making, found that the one of the biggest predictors of voting for Trump after party affiliation was the rejection of political correctnessóTrumpís voters felt silenced.

    So whoís right? Are conservatives more prejudiced than liberals, or vice versa? Research over the years has shown that in industrialized nations, social conservatives and religious fundamentalists possess psychological traits, such as the valuing of conformity and the desire for certainty, that tend to predispose people toward prejudice. Meanwhile, liberals and the nonreligious tend to be more open to new experiences, a trait associated with lower prejudice. So one might expect that, whatever each groupís own ideology, conservatives and Christians should be inherently more discriminatory on the whole.

    But more recent psychological research, some of it presented in January at the annual meeting of the Society of Personality and Social Psychology (SPSP), shows that itís not so simple. These findings confirm that conservatives, liberals, the religious and the nonreligious are each prejudiced against those with opposing views. But surprisingly, each group is about equally prejudiced. While liberals might like to think of themselves as more open-minded, they are no more tolerant of people unlike them than their conservative counterparts are.

    Political understanding might finally stand a chance if we could first put aside the argument over who has that bigger problem. The truth is that we all do.



    That article was written 3 years ago, and I think the intolerance of the left has only gotten exponentially worse.

    The leftist extremists can say things like "(F-bomb) the Police" and "Kill every Cop", and the left will defend that as "free speech", and even defend the anarchy and chaos around it as "peaceful protesters", doing everything in their power to ignore the anarchy they are excusing.

    The right can say something like "all lives matter", and the left will break out into hysteria. It's speech. It's true. But it's verboten.

    Colleges and universities can have the silliest and nuttiest leftists speak on their campus, but the presence of a conservative speaker causes near riots.

    Are there ANY lefties here who claim to be 'tolerant'?
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since youíve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?Ē

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    You have to understand that goes back to Herbert Marcuse book ďRepressive Tolerance,Ē 1965..

    THIS essay examines the idea of tolerance in our advanced industrial society. The conclusion reached is that the realization of the objective of tolerance would call for intolerance toward prevailing policies, attitudes, opinions, and the extension of tolerance to policies, attitudes, and opinions which are outlawed or suppressed. In other words, today tolerance appears again as what it was in its origins, at the beginning of the modern periodóa partisan goal, a subversive liberating notion and practice. Conversely, what is proclaimed and practiced as tolerance today, is in many of its most effective manifestations serving the cause of oppression.

    https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-tolerance/
    So tolerance as we generally understand it is really repressive. So they must shut up voices that disagree, which has led to speech codes, microaggression, political correctness in our day. The only tolerance that is accepted is the tolerance of their views.

    To quote Marcuse

    I suggested in ďRepressive ToleranceĒ the practice of discriminating tolerance in an inverse direction, as a means of shifting the balance between Right and Left by restraining the liberty of the Right, thus counteracting the pervasive inequality of freedom (unequal opportunity of access to the means of democratic persuasion) and strengthening the oppressed against the oppressed. Tolerance would be restricted with respect to movements of a demonstrably aggressive or destructive character (destructive of the prospects for peace, justice, and freedom for all). Such discrimination would also be applied to movements opposing the extension of social legislation to the poor, weak, disabled. As against the virulent denunciations that such a policy would do away with the sacred liberalistic principle of equality for ďthe other sideĒ, I maintain that there are issues where either there is no ďother sideĒ in any more than a formalistic sense, or where ďthe other sideĒ is demonstrably ďregressiveĒ and impedes possible improvement of the human condition. To tolerate propaganda for inhumanity vitiates the goals not only of liberalism but of every progressive political philosophy.
    Last edited by seer; 07-27-2020 at 08:55 AM.
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    tWebber Hypatia_Alexandria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Are there ANY lefties here who claim to be 'tolerant'?
    Yes.
    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

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    tWebber whag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post

    The right can say something like "all lives matter", and the left will break out into hysteria. It's speech. It's true. But it's verboten.
    It's obviously more than that. The phrase wasn't "Only Black Lives Matter." "All Lives Matter" therefore took on the air of an overreaction since nothing in the original phrase meant to indicate that "only black lives matter" but look what's happening in police culture where unions protect bad apples that harass people of color. You only acknowledged the problem of police unions when the social unrest started.

    Are there ANY lefties here who claim to be 'tolerant'?
    I skew left and haven't thrown tomatoes at conservative speakers. I'm sad to see that you've bought into the belief that conservatives are even-keeled saints and that liberals want to invade your home.

    Get off social media, pastor. It's turning your brain into mush.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    I always thought tolerate means to put up with and allow opinions and behaviors you DON'T agree with. The left has redefined to be allowing viewpoints they approve with and destroying any viewpoints they don't approve of.

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whag View Post
    It's obviously more than that. The phrase wasn't "Only Black Lives Matter."
    Correct, but anybody can say that without retribution.

    "All Lives Matter" therefore took on the air of an overreaction since nothing in the original phrase meant to indicate that "only black lives matter" but look what's happening in police culture where unions protect bad apples that harass people of color. You only acknowledged the problem of police unions when the social unrest started.
    Took on with whom? It should be recognized as universal truth.

    I skew left and haven't thrown tomatoes at conservative speakers. I'm sad to see that you've bought into the belief that conservatives are even-keeled saints and that liberals want to invade your home.
    Ah, a JimL argument. Never said so, never thought so.

    Get off social media, pastor. It's turning your brain into mush.
    For believing free speech should be free speech, and liberals, who used to preach tolerance, are no more? You have swallowed the lie.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since youíve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?Ē

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    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    I think liberals are vastly more tolerant than conservatives.

    The OP briefly correctly alluded to the huge amount of research that has been done over the course of the last century across the Western world on this subject (immediately prior to ludicrously hand-waving it away on the grounds of a single study):

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Research over the years has shown that in industrialized nations, social conservatives and religious fundamentalists possess psychological traits, such as the valuing of conformity and the desire for certainty, that tend to predispose people toward prejudice. Meanwhile, liberals and the nonreligious tend to be more open to new experiences, a trait associated with lower prejudice.
    In addition to that research, literally if you paid any attention at any point in the last 100 years to the values coming out of the mouths of liberals, you'd know one of those values was tolerance.

    That has never, of course, stopped conservatives trying to willfully misunderstand and mock the liberal value of tolerance. Over the years I've seen plenty of troll threads like this one from conservative trying to mock the idea of tolerance due to perceiving it as a liberal value.

    It's amusing the US conservatives have suddenly seized on the idea of tolerance as being a good value. But it's less amusing when they bring their hysterical paranoid persecution and martyr and victim complexes into the mix, and shriek that they are the victim. No, the world isn't out to get you. Calm down, breathe slowly, count to ten.

    People protesting against your values, people speaking words, is free speech. It's them expressing their values. It's the height of tolerance that they can have their views. They're allowed to have their views. They're allowed to think something different to you. Stop hyperventilating just cos someone has a different opinion to you. Stop hyperventilating just cos someone expresses their opinion. Learn some tolerance. Stop assuming someone else having an opinion is persecution of you.

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    I think liberals are vastly more tolerant than conservatives.
    We can see that with the riots, right?

    The OP briefly correctly alluded to the huge amount of research that has been done over the course of the last century across the Western world on this subject (immediately prior to ludicrously hand-waving it away on the grounds of a single study):
    You made that look like it was something I said --- it clearly was not --- It was part of the material I quoted, which is over 3 years old.

    In addition to that research, literally if you paid any attention at any point in the last 100 years to the values coming out of the mouths of liberals, you'd know one of those values was tolerance.
    And, once again, I'm talking about NOW compared to how things used to be.

    That has never, of course, stopped conservatives trying to willfully misunderstand and mock the liberal value of tolerance. Over the years I've seen plenty of troll threads like this one from conservative trying to mock the idea of tolerance due to perceiving it as a liberal value.
    How very tolerant of you! :win:

    It's amusing the US conservatives have suddenly seized on the idea of tolerance as being a good value. But it's less amusing when they bring their hysterical paranoid persecution and martyr and victim complexes into the mix, and shriek that they are the victim. No, the world isn't out to get you. Calm down, breathe slowly, count to ten.
    I have always believed in tolerance, and I have NEVER been triggered to blow up a building, or rob or loot or riot or burn....

    People protesting against your values, people speaking words, is free speech. It's them expressing their values.
    Words are fine, destruction of property, violence, chaos and mayhem are not.

    It's the height of tolerance that they can have their views. They're allowed to have their views. They're allowed to think something different to you.
    What you seem absolutely incapable of grasping is that there's a different between free speech and VIOLENCE.

    Stop hyperventilating just cos someone has a different opinion to you. Stop hyperventilating just cos someone expresses their opinion. Learn some tolerance. Stop assuming someone else having an opinion is persecution of you.
    Nobody is hyperventilating here --- that's just your own hateful intolerance ringing in your own ears.

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    Last edited by Cow Poke; 07-27-2020 at 01:57 PM.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since youíve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?Ē

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Yes.
    Bless you.
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    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    We can see that with the riots, right?
    Those protesters are allowed to have their free speech. As a liberal I am tolerant of them doing that.

    You don't seem to be tolerant of their free speech. It has come across fairly clearly in your posts that you have strong emotions about what they are saying about cops, and that you want their protests suppressed by force. That is called being 'triggered' and 'intolerant'. That's just what those words mean. You don't seem to be very self-aware on the subject. Perhaps a little self-reflection is in order on your part?

    Words are fine...
    What you seem absolutely incapable of grasping is that there's a different between free speech and VIOLENCE.
    That doesn't actually seem to be your standard however. I only need to go back through your posting history as far as the OP of this thread, to see:

    The leftist extremists can say things like "(F-bomb) the Police" and "Kill every Cop", and the left will defend that as "free speech"
    You critique the leftists for being tolerant of speech and you critique them doing so on their grounds that it is "free speech".

    But it's speech you don't like, so you object to them being tolerant of it.
    Last edited by Starlight; 07-27-2020 at 02:10 PM.

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