Originally posted by mikewhitney
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Trump follows and endorses crazy Doctor
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Originally posted by Whateverman View PostIf I referenced Dunning-Kruger here, would you understand what I meant by it?
I've been posting research on the topic and medical doctors' evaluation of the research. Doctors also have their clinical experience. But few other people look into the details of the studies -- and this becomes an easy failure point for those who think HCQ is mostly bad as a treatment for coronavirus.
Let me know when you are ready to address the topic of the discussion.Last edited by mikewhitney; 08-03-2020, 04:58 PM.
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostI think you are bringing up Shuny's inability to understand the details of the science and that he is unable to recognize his inability. But it would be best to keep on the discussion at hand rather than to speak about Shuny.
I've been posting research on the topic and medical doctors' evaluation of the research. Doctors also have their clinical experience. But few other people look into the details of the studies -- and this becomes an easy failure point for those who think HCQ is mostly bad as a treatment for coronavirus.
Let me know when you are ready to address the topic of the discussion.
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostI think you are bringing up Shuny's inability to [...]
Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostLet me know when you are ready to address the topic of the discussion.
Let us know when you've stopped assuming you know more than the scientists and doctors who've made their decades-long careers in a field your only interest in is partisan.Last edited by Whateverman; 08-03-2020, 06:11 PM.
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Originally posted by Whateverman View PostSince I was responding to you and not him, that's obviously wrong
Let us know when you've stopped assuming you know more than the scientists and doctors who've made their decades-long careers in a field your only interest in is partisan.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostFirst, you did not address Watereverman's post. Second, you only selectively post that which agrees with your agenda concenrning the science behind COVID-19.
We are still waiting to hear your contribution on review of these studies. It would be nice to have a fruitful discussion on this.
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostHaha. You really don't read have been an idle participant in this topic. You have not stated any response to the overall studies. I'm not sure how the list of studies at c19study.com misses any of the studies that you are relying on. You simply have not answered back on details of any studies whether non-political or leftist in nature.
We are still waiting to hear your contribution on review of these studies. It would be nice to have a fruitful discussion on this.
Your whining opinion is just that, opinion. It is wrong against the standard that matters, those of the policy makers.
Your claims are quack on a number of fronts:
(1) you claim by implication that doctors do not have their patients best interests at heart by denying them access to this drug. Which is false unless you agree with 2:
(2) there is a global conspiracy against the use of this drug, violating their oath, by implication.
The reasonable conclusion is that you are a nutter, trying to be reasonable doesn't stop you being nutter. Apparently the right-wing nuts that run this site will continue to enable you to spread false information, but then again, they too are nutters - so, they play to their nutty base.
Now you're going to whine about how we need to discuss the science. We don't. The people qualified to make the decisions that matter have concluded that the science says that the drug is ineffective or does more harm than good. Until that changes you are just a nut for making claims to the contrary.Last edited by Zara; 08-03-2020, 07:33 PM.
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Thanks for your input.
You answer means nothing. You have contributed only your imaginations with no substance. It is not the waving of hands by some so-called international community that determines the outcome of science. It is the actual doctors who practice medicine that is critical. It is is important to have medical studies which help identify what treatments are useful. This validation of the HCQ comes from studies and doctors across many nations.
You are simply disregarding science in favor of some sort of populism. However, it is not popular science that determines the best medicine. It is actual scientific study that helps determine the best medicine.
We heard from doctors who have successfully used HCQ protocols. This is a good reason to trust their judgment. However, we saw in New York city where Cuomo made the medical decisions or where doctors kept putting people one ventilators with a 99% result of death. So sometimes doctors don't operate in the best interest of patients -- maybe just due to hospital policies -- more bureaucracy. It is kind of odd that people are now calling me a nut case for advocating good science instead of political science. We are in a precarious situation when politicians determine what medicine we should take. But if you like that, just go with the political decisions.
The better wisdom ... just because everyone else is eating a Tide pod does not mean you should. Don't simply go with popular opinion. God gave you a brain.Last edited by mikewhitney; 08-03-2020, 07:56 PM.
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostI can't believe you actually spoke in such blindness. (You must not have looked at any of the competent sites I listed, nor did you provide alternative studies of any substance.) I am getting this material from established scientists and doctors.
Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostHowever, no one responds back with the same level of expertise. No one here is getting information from the studies or the scientists.
Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostSo, the challenge is for you and shuny and others to start looking at the research.
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Originally posted by Whateverman View PostNot your opinions, no. Those are all yours, and they're not supported by the material you keep saying we need to pay better attention to :)
Neither are you. You're just pointing to an aggregator, which simplifies the data into a form you can spin as you need.
Show us your research. All we've seen from you so far - at best - are stories from reporters about studies.
Have you found a study that was not listed on c19study.com that you think is important?
I'm not sure what you are doing here if you don't want to provide evidence for your opinions. But it would be nice if you participated in the research. One bit of information I have not seen pertains to the reason that the failing hospital studies keep providing patients with an overdose of HCQ of 1600mg. Can you find some justification for giving 8 times more of the cure than successful uses recommend?
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View Postsure. whatever. I did not see where you listed missing studies or where you identified errors in the analyses.
The studies reveal some efficacy when the infection is caught early, and since the average wait time for a test not done in a hospital is around 2 weeks, this makes HCQ not terribly useful. Despite this, you rage all through these forums, telling people that you're the only one who follows the science - even though it's pretty clear you do little more than repeat your manta to the exclusion of actual science.
Link to a website with plenty of graphs, and you convince yourself that you're an expert
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Originally posted by Whateverman View PostI showed errors in YOUR analysis. Several times.
The studies reveal some efficacy when the infection is caught early, and since the average wait time for a test not done in a hospital is around 2 weeks, this makes HCQ not terribly useful. Despite this, you rage all through these forums, telling people that you're the only one who follows the science - even though it's pretty clear you do little more than repeat your manta to the exclusion of actual science.
Link to a website with plenty of graphs, and you convince yourself that you're an expert
But don't use studies against HCQ that utilize killer doses of HCQ and say those are conclusive. Also, show me what you learned from reviewing the studies.
It seems that a proper hospital study will include the Zelenko protocol so that patients get the 200mg instead of 1600. Then include Zinc and Azithromycin. The study might include other protocols. But start with those which have had reported success.
I'm here to share good news. What is your purpose?Last edited by mikewhitney; 08-04-2020, 12:32 AM.
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostOk then. Get out the news the HCQ should be taken quickly upon any signs of sickness. Let people know to drink Tonic Water to help avoid coronavirus. Remember the Zinc too. There is no reason why people should be getting so sick that they have to go to the hospital. I remember we discussed this and came to these conclusions.
But don't use studies against HCQ that utilize killer doses of HCQ and say those are conclusive. Also, show me what you learned from reviewing the studies.
It seems that a proper hospital study will include the Zelenko protocol so that patients get the 200mg instead of 1600. Then include Zinc and Azithromycin. The study might include other protocols. But start with those which have had reported success.
I'm here to share good news. What is your purpose?
I don't know why anyone would use 1600 mg unless they were intentionally seeking to get bad results by harming patients.Last edited by NorrinRadd; 08-04-2020, 01:13 AM.Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostFrom what I've seen, the typical dosage recommended by HCQ advocates is 400-800 mg daily, comparable to the typical dosage for RA or lupus.
I don't know why anyone would use 1600 mg unless they were intentionally seeking to get bad results by harming patients.
https://internetprotocol.co/hype-new...om-dr-zelenko/
HCQ 200mg twice a day for 5 days
Azithromycin 500mg once a day for 5 days
Zinc sulfate 200mg once a day for 5 days
This protocol should be the primary one to test in trials. The Zinc is reportedly what enters the cell to cleanse it of the virus.
The UK study (at https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20151852v1) specifies 800mg HCQ for the first dose followed in 6 hours by another 800mg. Then 400mg every 12 hours for 9 days.
However, the lack of Zinc may mean that actual treatment will not happen among Zinc-deficient patients, but most patients will be Zinc deficient. That deficiency is indicated by loss of sense of taste and smell (anosmia).
The lack of antibiotic may allow bacteria infections that also will lead to fever.
I should note that the initial dose of medicine sometimes is twice what is normal so that a patient would start with the levels that he would have had he taken a dose the previous day. However, the 1600mg has been described as a dangerous dose for one day.Last edited by mikewhitney; 08-04-2020, 02:08 AM.
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