Trump follows and endorses crazy Doctor

[Whateverman]

The deaths are happening largely because people are not aware of the benefits of HCQ.

If I referenced Dunning-Kruger here, would you understand what I meant by it?

[mikewhitney]

If I referenced Dunning-Kruger here, would you understand what I meant by it?

I think you are bringing up Shuny's inability to understand the details of the science and that he is unable to recognize his inability. But it would be best to keep on the discussion at hand rather than to speak about Shuny.

I've been posting research on the topic and medical doctors' evaluation of the research. Doctors also have their clinical experience. But few other people look into the details of the studies -- and this becomes an easy failure point for those who think HCQ is mostly bad as a treatment for coronavirus.

Let me know when you are ready to address the topic of the discussion.

[shunyadragon]

I think you are bringing up Shuny's inability to understand the details of the science and that he is unable to recognize his inability. But it would be best to keep on the discussion at hand rather than to speak about Shuny.

I've been posting research on the topic and medical doctors' evaluation of the research. Doctors also have their clinical experience. But few other people look into the details of the studies -- and this becomes an easy failure point for those who think HCQ is mostly bad as a treatment for coronavirus.

Let me know when you are ready to address the topic of the discussion.

First, you did not address Watereverman's post. Second, you only selectively post that which agrees with your agenda concenrning the science behind COVID-19.

[Whateverman]

The deaths are happening largely because people are not aware of the benefits of HCQ.

If I referenced Dunning-Kruger here, would you understand what I meant by it?

I think you are bringing up Shuny's inability to [...]

Since I was responding to you and not him, that's obviously wrong

Let me know when you are ready to address the topic of the discussion.

Let us know when you've stopped assuming you know more than the scientists and doctors who've made their decades-long careers in a field your only interest in is partisan.

[mikewhitney]

Since I was responding to you and not him, that's obviously wrong


Let us know when you've stopped assuming you know more than the scientists and doctors who've made their decades-long careers in a field your only interest in is partisan.[/FONT][/COLOR]

I can't believe you actually spoke in such blindness. (You must not have looked at any of the competent sites I listed, nor did you provide alternative studies of any substance.) I am getting this material from established scientists and doctors. However, no one responds back with the same level of expertise. No one here is getting information from the studies or the scientists. So, the challenge is for you and shuny and others to start looking at the research.

[mikewhitney]

First, you did not address Watereverman's post. Second, you only selectively post that which agrees with your agenda concenrning the science behind COVID-19.

Haha. You really don't read have been an idle participant in this topic. You have not stated any response to the overall studies. I'm not sure how the list of studies at c19study.com misses any of the studies that you are relying on. You simply have not answered back on details of any studies whether non-political or leftist in nature.

We are still waiting to hear your contribution on review of these studies. It would be nice to have a fruitful discussion on this.

[mikewhitney]

Since I was responding to you and not him, that's obviously wrong

You were not really responding to anything. You were changing the topic.

[Zara]

Haha. You really don't read have been an idle participant in this topic. You have not stated any response to the overall studies. I'm not sure how the list of studies at c19study.com misses any of the studies that you are relying on. You simply have not answered back on details of any studies whether non-political or leftist in nature.

We are still waiting to hear your contribution on review of these studies. It would be nice to have a fruitful discussion on this.

What matters is that the international community of health collages has effectively deemed the drug to be ineffective in treating or mitigating covid. Their clinical determination is policy.

Your whining opinion is just that, opinion. It is wrong against the standard that matters, those of the policy makers.

Your claims are quack on a number of fronts:

(1) you claim by implication that doctors do not have their patients best interests at heart by denying them access to this drug. Which is false unless you agree with 2:
(2) there is a global conspiracy against the use of this drug, violating their oath, by implication.

The reasonable conclusion is that you are a nutter, trying to be reasonable doesn't stop you being nutter. Apparently the right-wing nuts that run this site will continue to enable you to spread false information, but then again, they too are nutters - so, they play to their nutty base.

Now you're going to whine about how we need to discuss the science. We don't. The people qualified to make the decisions that matter have concluded that the science says that the drug is ineffective or does more harm than good. Until that changes you are just a nut for making claims to the contrary.

[mikewhitney]

Thanks for your input.

You answer means nothing. You have contributed only your imaginations with no substance. It is not the waving of hands by some so-called international community that determines the outcome of science. It is the actual doctors who practice medicine that is critical. It is is important to have medical studies which help identify what treatments are useful. This validation of the HCQ comes from studies and doctors across many nations.

You are simply disregarding science in favor of some sort of populism. However, it is not popular science that determines the best medicine. It is actual scientific study that helps determine the best medicine.

We heard from doctors who have successfully used HCQ protocols. This is a good reason to trust their judgment. However, we saw in New York city where Cuomo made the medical decisions or where doctors kept putting people one ventilators with a 99% result of death. So sometimes doctors don't operate in the best interest of patients -- maybe just due to hospital policies -- more bureaucracy. It is kind of odd that people are now calling me a nut case for advocating good science instead of political science. We are in a precarious situation when politicians determine what medicine we should take. But if you like that, just go with the political decisions.

The better wisdom ... just because everyone else is eating a Tide pod does not mean you should. Don't simply go with popular opinion. God gave you a brain.

[Whateverman]

I can't believe you actually spoke in such blindness. (You must not have looked at any of the competent sites I listed, nor did you provide alternative studies of any substance.) I am getting this material from established scientists and doctors.

Not your opinions, no. Those are all yours, and they're not supported by the material you keep saying we need to pay better attention to :)

However, no one responds back with the same level of expertise. No one here is getting information from the studies or the scientists.

Neither are you. You're just pointing to an aggregator, which simplifies the data into a form you can spin as you need.

So, the challenge is for you and shuny and others to start looking at the research.

Show us your research. All we've seen from you so far - at best - are stories from reporters about studies.

[mikewhitney]

Not your opinions, no. Those are all yours, and they're not supported by the material you keep saying we need to pay better attention to :)
Neither are you. You're just pointing to an aggregator, which simplifies the data into a form you can spin as you need.
Show us your research. All we've seen from you so far - at best - are stories from reporters about studies.

sure. whatever. I did not see where you listed missing studies or where you identified errors in the analyses. You are not offering anything into the discussion but your opinions, your doubts.

Have you found a study that was not listed on c19study.com that you think is important?

I'm not sure what you are doing here if you don't want to provide evidence for your opinions. But it would be nice if you participated in the research. One bit of information I have not seen pertains to the reason that the failing hospital studies keep providing patients with an overdose of HCQ of 1600mg. Can you find some justification for giving 8 times more of the cure than successful uses recommend?

[Whateverman]

sure. whatever. I did not see where you listed missing studies or where you identified errors in the analyses.

I showed errors in YOUR analysis. Several times.

The studies reveal some efficacy when the infection is caught early, and since the average wait time for a test not done in a hospital is around 2 weeks, this makes HCQ not terribly useful. Despite this, you rage all through these forums, telling people that you're the only one who follows the science - even though it's pretty clear you do little more than repeat your manta to the exclusion of actual science.

Link to a website with plenty of graphs, and you convince yourself that you're an expert

[mikewhitney]

I showed errors in YOUR analysis. Several times.

The studies reveal some efficacy when the infection is caught early, and since the average wait time for a test not done in a hospital is around 2 weeks, this makes HCQ not terribly useful. Despite this, you rage all through these forums, telling people that you're the only one who follows the science - even though it's pretty clear you do little more than repeat your manta to the exclusion of actual science.

Link to a website with plenty of graphs, and you convince yourself that you're an expert

Ok then. Get out the news the HCQ should be taken quickly upon any signs of sickness. Let people know to drink Tonic Water to help avoid coronavirus. Remember the Zinc too. There is no reason why people should be getting so sick that they have to go to the hospital. I remember we discussed this and came to these conclusions.

But don't use studies against HCQ that utilize killer doses of HCQ and say those are conclusive. Also, show me what you learned from reviewing the studies.

It seems that a proper hospital study will include the Zelenko protocol so that patients get the 200mg instead of 1600. Then include Zinc and Azithromycin. The study might include other protocols. But start with those which have had reported success.

I'm here to share good news. What is your purpose?

[NorrinRadd]

Ok then. Get out the news the HCQ should be taken quickly upon any signs of sickness. Let people know to drink Tonic Water to help avoid coronavirus. Remember the Zinc too. There is no reason why people should be getting so sick that they have to go to the hospital. I remember we discussed this and came to these conclusions.

But don't use studies against HCQ that utilize killer doses of HCQ and say those are conclusive. Also, show me what you learned from reviewing the studies.

It seems that a proper hospital study will include the Zelenko protocol so that patients get the 200mg instead of 1600. Then include Zinc and Azithromycin. The study might include other protocols. But start with those which have had reported success.

I'm here to share good news. What is your purpose?

From what I've seen, the typical dosage recommended by HCQ advocates is 400-800 mg daily, comparable to the typical dosage for RA or lupus.

I don't know why anyone would use 1600 mg unless they were intentionally seeking to get bad results by harming patients.

[mikewhitney]

From what I've seen, the typical dosage recommended by HCQ advocates is 400-800 mg daily, comparable to the typical dosage for RA or lupus.

I don't know why anyone would use 1600 mg unless they were intentionally seeking to get bad results by harming patients.

Thanks for the info. The 200mg plus Zinc was probably for the onset of symptoms. The Zelenko procotol may be for sicker people and is:

https://internetprotocol.co/hype-new...om-dr-zelenko/
HCQ 200mg twice a day for 5 days
Azithromycin 500mg once a day for 5 days
Zinc sulfate 200mg once a day for 5 days

This protocol should be the primary one to test in trials. The Zinc is reportedly what enters the cell to cleanse it of the virus.

The UK study (at https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20151852v1) specifies 800mg HCQ for the first dose followed in 6 hours by another 800mg. Then 400mg every 12 hours for 9 days.

Source: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20151852v1.full.pdf

Eligible and consenting patients were 110 assigned in a ratio of 2:1 to either usual standard of care or usual standard of care plus 111 hydroxychloroquine or one of the other available treatment arms ( see Supplementary Appendix) 112 using web-based simple (unstratified) randomization with allocation concealment. Patients 113 allocated to hydroxychloroquine sulfate (200mg tablet containing 155mg base equivalent) 114 received a loading dose of 4 tablets (800 mg) at zero and 6 hours, followed by 2 tablets (400 115 mg) starting at 12 hours after the initial dose and then every 12 hours for the next 9 days or until 116 discharge (whichever occurred earlier) (see Supplementary Appendix).15 Allocated treatment 117 was prescribed by the attending clinician. Participants and local study staff were not blinded to 118 the allocated treatment.

© Copyright Original Source

However, the lack of Zinc may mean that actual treatment will not happen among Zinc-deficient patients, but most patients will be Zinc deficient. That deficiency is indicated by loss of sense of taste and smell (anosmia).

The lack of antibiotic may allow bacteria infections that also will lead to fever.

I should note that the initial dose of medicine sometimes is twice what is normal so that a patient would start with the levels that he would have had he taken a dose the previous day. However, the 1600mg has been described as a dangerous dose for one day.