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Thread: Trump follows and endorses crazy Doctor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Are they of the same calibre as Immanuel? If so perhaps some Americans should be concerned.
    here is a Yale Epidemiolgist who says that Hydroxychoroquine is very good for fighting covid 19 https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ating-covid-19 I dare shuny to call this person a loon.

    Risch, at Newsweek, argues that multiple studies over the past several months have demonstrated that the drug is a safe and efficacious treatment method for COVID-19.

    Among the successful treatment experiments, he writes, are "an additional 400 high-risk patients treated by Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, with zero deaths; four studies totaling almost 500 high-risk patients treated in nursing homes and clinics across the U.S., with no deaths; a controlled trial of more than 700 high-risk patients in Brazil, with significantly reduced risk of hospitalization and two deaths among 334 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine; and another study of 398 matched patients in France, also with significantly reduced hospitalization risk."
    he also mentions the how bad it is to let politics get in the way of good science.
    Though according to Risch the benefits of the drug are clear, he nevertheless concedes that the subject "has become highly politicized."

    "For many, it is viewed as a marker of political identity, on both sides of the political spectrum," he said. "Nobody needs me to remind them that this is not how medicine should proceed."

    He also argues that "the drug has not been used properly in many studies," and that delays in administering the drug have reduced its effectiveness.

    "In the future," Risch says in the column, "I believe this misbegotten episode regarding hydroxychloroquine will be studied by sociologists of medicine as a classic example of how extra-scientific factors overrode clear-cut medical evidence."
    here is the link to the newsweek column he wrote https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeati...pinion-1519535 if you want to read it straight from his own mouth
    Last edited by RumTumTugger; 07-29-2020 at 08:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    I am not responsible for the content of the posts made by contributors to this thread.
    Yes, mom*, I got that!




    *intended as a friendly poke
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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  5. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumTumTugger View Post
    here is a Yale Epidemiolgist who says that Hydroxychoroquine is very good for fighting covid 19 https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ating-covid-19 I dare shuny to call this person a loon.



    he also mentions the how bad it is to let politics get in the way of good science.


    here is the link to the newsweek column he wrote https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeati...pinion-1519535 if you want to read it straight from his own mouth
    What trials has Dr Risch conducted?

    With regard to the reference in your article to the apparent success of Dr Vladimir Zelenko - it seems he has left his community.

    https://www.jta.org/2020/05/20/unite...-his-treatment, That article states "The announcement comes after Zelenko was accused by community leaders of spreading disinformation about the rate of coronavirus infection in Kiryas Joel, leading to discrimination against residents of the village. Zelenko is also being investigated by a federal prosecutor over his claim that a study of the drugs he promoted had won approval from the Food and Drug Administration."
    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    What trials has Dr Risch conducted?

    With regard to the reference in your article to the apparent success of Dr Vladimir Zelenko - it seems he has left his community.

    https://www.jta.org/2020/05/20/unite...-his-treatment, That article states "The announcement comes after Zelenko was accused by community leaders of spreading disinformation about the rate of coronavirus infection in Kiryas Joel, leading to discrimination against residents of the village. Zelenko is also being investigated by a federal prosecutor over his claim that a study of the drugs he promoted had won approval from the Food and Drug Administration."
    And your comment on the Henry Ford Health System Study I cited?


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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    Wow. This is insane.

    Stella Immanuel was speaking as part of America's Frontline Doctors. She is from Nigeria -- my bad guess earlier.
    Actually, she's from Cameroon. She went to medical school in Nigeria.

    She treated 350 patients with no deaths.
    Or so she claims.

    She was not the only one speaking but she was part of this group of doctors. I think they chose her to be publicized because the Mainstream Media figured that they could emphasize points about her life that would try to shame her and the message among the public.

    The video is available at 153news.net/watch_video.php?v=KSASKSUAW4MX
    Note that your internet provider may block the 153news.net. I hade to access this website through a VPN. If you can't view the video directly, you can download the video and play it with videolan.org player or one of Microsoft video players.
    I found it interesting that one of the speakers was Dr. Dan Erickson, who has been caught spreading misinformation about the virus before.

    The video has been removed from twitter and youtube (at least the initial posting there). There website (americanfrontlinedoctors.com) was removed within days. So there were 3 places of censorship -- one was squarespace hosting. This is unheard of censorship of doctors who are trying to get a reasonable approach that opens the economy.

    If you want something that is evidence of evildoing, a similar website hostname was created by the CDC as americanfrontlinedoctors.org. This is insane that the CDC would do this. People should be aware of the impropriety of the CDC doing this -- it is totally wrong for the CDC to do this trickery. Wake up or we will only suffer for the halting of public debate and policies of quarantine. Free speech is to give us the ability to speak against the actions of the government.

    In summary, many problems are apparent
    1. censorship by big internet companies
    2. CDC taking a link associated with the public opposition to the CDC
    3. the false study printed in New England Journal of Medicine
    4. stifling of doctors' messages, of publicly debate
    5. the selective defaming of Stella when there were other doctors also promoting Hydroxychloroquine

    You can find some additional but older news on coronavirus at https://www.medicineuncensored.com/. Some retracted studies are pointed out on that site.
    It's a tough call regarding what to do when a group of people want to spread misinformation during a public health crisis. Ordinarily, I would prefer to let them battle it out in the marketplace of ideas. But in this case, lots of people would die before their claims are proved false. So I think I'm going to have to endorse censorship in this instance.

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  9. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic View Post
    Actually, she's from Cameroon. She went to medical school in Nigeria.


    Or so she claims.


    I found it interesting that one of the speakers was Dr. Dan Erickson, who has been caught spreading misinformation about the virus before.


    It's a tough call regarding what to do when a group of people want to spread misinformation during a public health crisis. Ordinarily, I would prefer to let them battle it out in the marketplace of ideas. But in this case, lots of people would die before their claims are proved false. So I think I'm going to have to endorse censorship in this instance.
    I'm not sure why you question the number of patients she has treated.

    These doctors were countering misinformation. They are countering this in the marketplace of ideas -- it sounds like you watched the video. That is what they were doing. By stopping their voice you are advocating the end of public discussion, that somehow the information based on Mainstream Media "expertise" is flawless.

    Haha. The sort-of-status-quo is that lots of people are dying. We absolutely know that hydroxychloroquine is safe. So its use is not a threat to anything except maybe to the desire to have people remain in fear until the magical vaccine appears ( of a type of vaccine that has failed to protect from coronavirus in the last 30 years -- or we have a totally experimental RDA vaccine that may upset our normal DNA). The video has doctors who have seen from their education and practice that the media information is inaccurate.

    We have the evidence of false journal published studies
    We have the media staging fake coronavirus test centers and staged events in front of hospitals
    We have Birx saying that any death of a person that is even suspected of coronavirus should be listed as a covid-19 death
    We have false positive tests reports for Florida
    We have censorship of these doctors and any other doctors who seek to balance out the discussion. This is the first time I know of where mass censorship is done on an outbreak.
    WHO is run by a communist revolutionist sponsored by China

    There is a great number of problems with the standard "approved" news. There are too many warning signs against simple trust of the mainstream media.
    In short, your confidence may be misplaced. But you may be happier in your wonderland.
    Last edited by mikewhitney; 07-29-2020 at 10:24 AM.

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  11. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    I'm not sure why you question the number of patients she has treated.
    Maybe she's telling the truth about how many patients she treated, and whether they were representative of the general population. Perhaps her patients just got lucky. But her claim is kind of improbable on its face, and we have no support for it.

    These doctors were countering misinformation. They are countering this in the marketplace of ideas -- it sounds like you watched the video. That is what they were doing. By stopping their voice you are advocating the end of public discussion, that somehow the information based on Mainstream Media "expertise" is flawless.
    It's hard to tell whether these doctors really believe what they are saying (I'm not a mind reader), but it's clear that they have a political agenda, which involves opening up the economy regardless of the consequences, and getting Trump reelected. It's also clear that they don't trust science and prefer to go with their guts, just like Trump.

    We know that human beings are biased towards believing things that they want to be true, or continuing to believe things that they already believe to be true. The reason we have double-blind randomized trials is specifically to counter these types of biases. So when someone wants to throw out science, and use anecdotal evidence instead, I think it's right to push back.

    Haha. The sort-of-status-quo is that lots of people are dying. We absolutely know that hydroxychloroquine is safe. So its use is not a threat to anything except maybe to the desire to have people remain in fear until the magical vaccine appears ( of a type of vaccine that has failed to protect from coronavirus in the last 30 years -- or we have a totally experimental RDA vaccine that may upset our normal DNA). The video has doctors who have seen from their education and practice that the media information is inaccurate.
    HCQ's use by the general public is a threat to the people who need it to treat lupus or malaria.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic View Post
    Maybe she's telling the truth about how many patients she treated, and whether they were representative of the general population. Perhaps her patients just got lucky. But her claim is kind of improbable on its face, and we have no support for it.



    It's hard to tell whether these doctors really believe what they are saying (I'm not a mind reader), but it's clear that they have a political agenda, which involves opening up the economy regardless of the consequences, and getting Trump reelected. It's also clear that they don't trust science and prefer to go with their guts, just like Trump.

    We know that human beings are biased towards believing things that they want to be true, or continuing to believe things that they already believe to be true. The reason we have double-blind randomized trials is specifically to counter these types of biases. So when someone wants to throw out science, and use anecdotal evidence instead, I think it's right to push back.

    HCQ's use by the general public is a threat to the people who need it to treat lupus or malaria.
    More HCQ can be manufactured. Bad studies were published, including ones where overdoses were used. People are dying without treatment so it is okay to try these treatments within the safety bounds.

    There is no indication that these doctors were Republicans or Trump-promoters (unless I missed something that you can point out?). Are you assuming a political motive in promoting life, health and safety by these doctors? Does your model of the broad situation endorse the lies promoted by the government and media?

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    And your comment on the Henry Ford Health System Study I cited?


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    And, other than a Tweet, has Trump really endorsed her? I know Trump Jr wanted everybody to see her video, but Shuny makes it sound like she's Trump's new "go to" for Covid advice. I'm guessing that's a steaming pile of poo.
    Apparently some of the Spanish language stations around here reported that Trump fired Fauci and she was his replacement.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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