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  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    From what you wrote, you appeared not to understand how those American colonies came into being.

    Now that is potentially IS a loaded comment. You will have to define what you understand by "lawful".
    That's what I asked you, since you are the one declaring which governments are lawful. I asked if you considered the Gaddafi government and the Assad governments were lawful.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
      That's what I asked you, since you are the one declaring which governments are lawful. I asked if you considered the Gaddafi government and the Assad governments were lawful.

      You have to define what you understand as lawful. So far you have singularly failed to do so.
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        "he" is a "she"!
        I am sorry about that, I do know you are a she, some times my mind goes faster then my fingers which then skip a keystroke or 2. I forgot to check for Typos and need to be remember to do that more often.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
          I am sorry about that, I do know you are a she, some times my mind goes faster then my fingers which then skip a keystroke or 2. I forgot to check for Typos and need to be remember to do that more often.
          Do not upset yourself. It is an easy mistake to make when typing.
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
            Do not upset yourself. It is an easy mistake to make when typing.
            very easy for me to do

            Thank you.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
              You have to define what you understand as lawful. So far you have singularly failed to do so.
              In spite of the fact that I asked you first (since you were the one using the term, not me), I will answer anyway: There is no such thing as a "lawful" government - except one that is determined by those being governed by it. The colonists had no representation in Parliament - so from the colonist's perspective it was not a legitimate government.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                In spite of the fact that I asked you first (since you were the one using the term, not me), I will answer anyway: There is no such thing as a "lawful" government - except one that is determined by those being governed by it. The colonists had no representation in Parliament - so from the colonist's perspective it was not a legitimate government.
                I agree that was their perception. However, it was not the perception of the British government. The colonists were not unique in having no representation in Parliament. Most other British subjects had none either given the electoral system in place at that time and the limited entitlement of those eligible to vote.

                However, the colonists had a degree of autonomy.
                Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 08-01-2020, 07:37 PM.
                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  I agree that was their perception. However, it was not the perception of the British government. The colonists were not unique in having no representation in Parliament. Most other British subjects had none either given the electoral system in place at that time and the limited entitlement of those eligible to vote.

                  However, the colonists had a degree of autonomy.
                  Which they chose to exercise with gusto.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Which they chose to exercise with gusto.
                    But only for the white property owning classes!
                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      I agree that was their perception. However, it was not the perception of the British government.
                      That doesn't matter. The British government could lay claim to all sorts of distant lands and it wouldn't make them the "lawful" government. In fact, the issue of the Falklands supports my argument. The inhabitants recognize Britain as their government, despite Argentina insisting the real estate belongs to them. So your argument would be that Falkland residents are subjects of the Argentinian government because Argentina has ancient and legitimate claims to the real estate.

                      The colonists were not unique in having no representation in Parliament. Most other British subjects had none either given the electoral system in place at that time and the limited entitlement of those eligible to vote.
                      That doesn't satisfy claims to a "lawful" government, just because others were cheated of representation as well.

                      However, the colonists had a degree of autonomy.
                      Interesting. So based on the criteria you're offering here, the Soviet Union was a "lawful" government. The "republics" did not have representation in the Politburo but they had some degree of autonomy. They should have been satisfied with that. So when Stalin had millions of Russians and others killed he was doing so lawfully, since he was the government when he was in charge.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                        I agree that was their perception. However, it was not the perception of the British government...
                        I'll back off after this. It may only be semantics, but your use of the word "lawful" riled me. There is no universal body to determine when a government is "lawful" or not. Now, you can say an "established" government or a "recognized" government and I will not protest. But neither determines "lawful."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                          But only for the white property owning classes!
                          Another nasty habit we learned from the Brits!
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                            I'll back off after this. It may only be semantics, but your use of the word "lawful" riled me. There is no universal body to determine when a government is "lawful" or not. Now, you can say an "established" government or a "recognized" government and I will not protest. But neither determines "lawful."
                            I see your point, but the fact remains that insofar as the British were concerned in the 1700s they were the lawful government of the colonies. From the early 1600s companies were chartered by the Crown to colonise the American coast. Shareholders in the companies were to provide settlers and capital and control production and trade. However, the government of those colonies was to remain in the hands of the crown, acting through councils.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Another nasty habit we learned from the Brits!
                              You did not learn it from the Brits, many of those American colonists had antecedents that were British and in various respects still regarded themselves as English gentlemen, albeit resident in the colonies.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                                You did not learn it from the Brits, many of those American colonists had antecedents that were British and in various respects still regarded themselves as English gentlemen, albeit resident in the colonies.
                                And, perhaps, you think these "peaceful protesters" who commit arson, looting, rioting and chaos and mayhem over grievances you cannot even identify -- perhaps you see them as "American gentlemen"?
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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