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Nadler: Antifa violence is a myth

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Maybe Americans should realise that their nation was established by rebellion against the legal government and its representatives and that a great deal of violence was involved, and recognise this as part of their national DNA.
    A) You DO realize that they went through a very thorough peaceful and well-thought out process before "rising up", yes?
    2) They also realized that their actions were an act of war, and were willing to risk their very lives, Fortunes and Sacred Honor.

    These were sober men (though they frequently met in taverns :)), not a bunch of self-centered anarchists looting and burning and rioting.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      Doesn't answer to my post. Still your turn.
      You can't condemn the violence of your anarchist thug heroes.

      I CLEARLY and without reservation condemn any white supremacists who may be looting and vandalizing and causing mayhem as not represent my values, and they should be in jail.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        You can't condemn the violence of your anarchist thug heroes.

        I CLEARLY and without reservation condemn any white supremacists who may be looting and vandalizing and causing mayhem as not represent my values, and they should be in jail.
        I won't call that a lie, or you a liar as you so often feel free to do to others, but that is not a true statement. I have condemned the violence, i've called them troublemakers and criminals, and I don't know of anyone on the side of the protesters who have defended or supported those people and what they're doing. Whoever they are, they are not helping the cause. The fact is that neither you or I have any idea who those people are. I suspect they're a mishmash of anti-fascist, white supremecist and just plain unprincipled vandals.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by JimL View Post
          I won't call that a lie, or you a liar as you so often feel free to do to others,
          I rarely call anybody a liar unless it's absolutely clear, and I substantiate it in the same post, as required. On this, you're full of crap.

          but that is not a true statement. I have condemned the violence, i've called them troublemakers and criminals, and I don't know of anyone on the side of the protesters who have defended or supported those people and what they're doing. Whoever they are, they are not helping the cause.
          You're just too stupid to understand that PEACEFUL protesters wouldn't be "protesting" in the middle of a riot. And you defend these thugs as "peaceful protesters".

          The fact is that neither you or I have any idea who those people are.
          I'm smart enough to know that no peaceful protester is going to be "protesting" in the middle of a riot.

          I suspect they're a mishmash of anti-fascist, white supremecist and just plain unprincipled vandals.
          And I condemn ALL of the violence, and I don't pretend that any of the anarchists are "peaceful protesters" or that "peaceful protesters" would be peacefully protesting in the middle of a riot.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            From Antifa to Mothers in Helmets, Diverse Elements Fuel Portland Protests

            Demonstrators in Portland, including some who identify as antifa, the loose coalition of self-described anti-fascist activists, have had years of conflict with law enforcement. But after the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis set off a nationwide movement for racial justice and police accountability, the protest in Portland drew thousands to the streets.
            This article is about how the participants in the protest are very diverse, and how the people who have previously been in antifa are only the tiniest fraction of the people attending these protests.

            If an antifa person attends a baseball game it doesn't make it an antifa game, and if an antifa person attends a BLM protest it doesn't make it an antifa protest. The FBI keeps reaffirming a lack of antifa involvement in the protests.
            Last edited by Starlight; 07-29-2020, 11:35 PM.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by JimL View Post
              I won't call that a lie, or you a liar as you so often feel free to do to others, but that is not a true statement. I have condemned the violence, i've called them troublemakers and criminals, and I don't know of anyone on the side of the protesters who have defended or supported those people and what they're doing. Whoever they are, they are not helping the cause. The fact is that neither you or I have any idea who those people are. I suspect they're a mishmash of anti-fascist, white supremecist and just plain unprincipled vandals.
              The vast, vast, vast majority of the BLM protests taking place across the US appear to be peaceful. That is great.

              There have been a few instances of violence, and we seem to keep finding out that this is being carried out by white supremacists who have snuck in to try and foment violence. Unfortunately there is a long history of this in the US where right-wing groups try to subvert peaceful leftist protest (Cointelpro etc). Obviously violence is bad and we condemn it when it occurs and condemn those doing it, just as with any other crimes. Obviously it's a side issue and doesn't take away from the main issues which are around the police use of violence, lack of police disciplinary measures and accountability, the humane treatment of suspects in custody, and racial issues around policing.

              But what's not helping is that Trump and Barr are lying to the American public, and unfortunately the gullible like CP are believing them, that the protesters are all a bunch of "violent anarchists" etc, which obviously couldn't be further from the truth. It's kinda sad how naive people are in believing that, even people who would otherwise agree that nothing much Trump says can be trusted.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                Maybe Americans should realise that their nation was established by rebellion against the legal government and its representatives and that a great deal of violence was involved, and recognise this as part of their national DNA.
                Gotta love it when leftists, no longer able to pretend that many of their fellow travelers are violent sociopaths, then try to figure out ways to rationalize their behavior. And being good little leftists they immediately declare it isn't their fault.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  This article is about how the participants in the protest are very diverse, and how the people who have previously been in antifa are only the tiniest fraction of the people attending these protests.

                  If an antifa person attends a baseball game it doesn't make it an antifa game, and if an antifa person attends a BLM protest it doesn't make it an antifa protest. The FBI keeps reaffirming a lack of antifa involvement in the protests.
                  But the antifa goons quickly take over the show, something we see again and again, over and over. This is because the left is largely tolerant of their actions and either pretends that it is a myth (Jerry Nadler to our own little jimmy) or rationalizes it (H_A). Funny how such things rarely happen when conservatives protest. In fact, they usually leave the areas they gather cleaner than before they arrived. No vandalized vehicles or buildings. No trash strewn everywhere.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    But the antifa goons quickly take over the show, something we see again and again, over and over.
                    Only in your imagination.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      You can do it yourself. I'd suggest looking at their actions in Berkeley in 2017 for a start. From the WaPo which tried to spin it but couldn't and by the title gave up:

                      Source: Black-clad antifa members attack peaceful right-wing demonstrators in Berkeley


                      Their faces hidden behind black bandannas and hoodies, about 100 anarchists and antifa— “anti-fascist” — members barreled into a protest Sunday afternoon in Berkeley’s Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park.

                      Jumping over plastic and concrete barriers, the group melted into a larger crowd of around 2,000 that had marched peacefully throughout the sunny afternoon for a “Rally Against Hate” gathering.

                      Shortly after, violence began to flare. A pepper-spray-wielding Trump supporter was smacked to the ground with homemade shields. Another was attacked by five black-clad antifa members, each windmilling kicks and punches into a man desperately trying to protect himself. A conservative group leader retreated for safety behind a line of riot police as marchers chucked water bottles, shot off pepper spray and screamed, “Fascist go home!”

                      All told, the Associated Press reported at least five individuals were attacked. An AP reporter witnessed the assaults. Berkeley Police’s Lt. Joe Okies told The Washington Post the rally resulted in “13 arrests on a range of charges including assault with a deadly weapon, obstructing a police officer, and various Berkeley municipal code violations.”


                      Source

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      And that was merely one incident of a series of such violent clashes with antifa leading the way again and again.
                      One obvious question: if it was Antifa leading the violent clashes, why does it say "A pepper-spray-wielding Trump supporter was smacked to the ground with homemade shields"? If the Trump supporter was using pepper spray then he initiated the violence, not those that smacked him down him afterwards.
                      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Gotta love it when leftists, no longer able to pretend that many of their fellow travelers are violent sociopaths, then try to figure out ways to rationalize their behavior. And being good little leftists they immediately declare it isn't their fault.
                        I am not defending anyone I am merely pointing out that the violence you are witnessing on the streets in the USA today echoes the violence that led to the creation of your nation. History has shown that when Americans feel they are being tyrannised they rise up to denounce their tyrants.

                        Your nation was created by violence. The 1760s and 1770s saw mobs rampaging through towns, vandalism, including the smashing up of churches, the burning of buildings, the terrorising of ordinary individuals, including threats, as well as acts of, violence and torture, and attempts to suppress the Loyalist press.

                        All that occurred before the colonies finally erupted into a brutal war.
                        Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 07-30-2020, 05:51 AM.
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Roy View Post
                          One obvious question: if it was Antifa leading the violent clashes, why does it say "A pepper-spray-wielding Trump supporter was smacked to the ground with homemade shields"? If the Trump supporter was using pepper spray then he initiated the violence, not those that smacked him down him afterwards.
                          Because he was trying to defend himself with pepper-spray while being attacked. If he was using it aggressively, like antifa is well known for using bear mace[1] , the reliably liberal WaPo would not have in a million years likened the conservative protesters as being "peaceful right-wing demonstrators." Instead they would have used that one person's belligerent behavior to paint all of the conservatives there as being violently antagonistic.




                          1. My favorite moment during the Berkeley "protests" was when one antifa thug lost his mask and immediately ran back to his buddies who apparently didn't recognize him without a mask and proceeded to blast him in the face with bear mace.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            I am not defending anyone I am merely pointing out that the violence you are witnessing on the streets in the USA today echoes the violence that led to the creation of your nation. History has shown that when Americans feel they are being tyrannised they rise up to denounce their tyrants.

                            Your nation was created by violence. The 1760s and 1770s saw mobs rampaging through towns, vandalism, including the smashing up of churches, the burning of buildings, the terrorising of ordinary individuals, including threats, as well as acts, off violence and torture, and attempts to suppress the Loyalist press.

                            All that occurred before the colonies finally erupted into a brutal war.
                            I never said you were defending them but you most definitely have tried to rationalize their behavior.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              Because he was trying to defend himself with pepper-spray while being attacked.
                              1) How do you know he was attacked before he used the pepper spray? Your source suggests the opposite
                              2) Why did he have pepper spray in the first place?
                              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                I never said you were defending them but you most definitely have tried to rationalize their behavior.
                                Their behaviour is no more irrational than that of the American Patriots of the late eighteenth century. Then many American colonists felt they living were under a tyrannical government. Today many black Americans feel they are living under similar circumstances.

                                Furthermore the violence of the 1770s has been [to an extent] mythologised [or overlooked] and is applauded and celebrated every year.
                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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