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Thread: Nadler: Antifa violence is a myth

  1. #101
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Rebelling against their lawful government.

    The only difference between the actions of American colonists that led to the declaration of independence and the British response, and today's protesters is that most Americans today see that eighteenth century rebellion as a justifiable means to an end and the result [i.e. the creation of the US] as a benefit.
    No. These anarchists are not just "protesting" against "America", they are looting and burning and causing mayhem, and many of them don't even have a clue why they're doing it. Which, I suspect, is why you can't seem to articulate their grievances.

    Those same Americans today view the current protests with [at least judging by comments on these boards] the expression of opinions that would have been recognised and endorsed by the British in the 1770s.
    You're really working hard to avoid the question, H_A. The grievances?
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  2. #102
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    JimL, CP was talking about the protests in PORTLAND. His orignal quote was:

    "Demonstrators in Portland, including some who identify as antifa,"

    And Nadler said that Antifa violence IN PORTLAND was a myth.

    Then you had to stick your nose in and say:

    "No, that wasn't the claim, CP, thats just the usual spin that you employ in your arguments in order to support your narrative."

    And now after we pointed it out to you, you say the above, which basically agrees with what we said in the first place?

    Go back to sleep.
    No, the claim by Nadler in the OP was that Antifa rioting in Portland was a myth and CP's claim was then that Nadler asserted that the idea that Antifa was ever involved in riots was a myth. You see the spin. You did the same in the Title of the OP. So, I had to correct both him and you because you have a tendency to only see what you're looking for. Nadler in your OP was specifically refering to Antifa with respect to Portland.

    Wake up.

  3. #103
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Rebelling against their lawful government.

    The only difference between the actions of American colonists that led to the declaration of independence and the British response, and today's protesters is that most Americans today see that eighteenth century rebellion as a justifiable means to an end and the result [i.e. the creation of the US] as a benefit.

    Those same Americans today view the current protests with [at least judging by comments on these boards] the expression of opinions that would have been recognised and endorsed by the British in the 1770s.
    Why are you intentionally avoiding his question about whether or not they should be treated as rebels by the government since you keep insisting they are no different than the Founding Fathers?

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  5. #104
    tWebber Ronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    The only difference between the actions of American colonists that led to the declaration of independence and the British response, and today's protesters is that most Americans today see that eighteenth century rebellion as a justifiable means to an end and the result [i.e. the creation of the US] as a benefit.
    The founders of this country had some brains; they knew what they wanted - and they (and their descendants) built the most powerful country in the world.

    The rabble today can't formulate a single thought, much less get organized and build a country. So that's a huge difference.

  6. #105
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    No, the claim by Nadler in the OP was that Antifa rioting in Portland was a myth and CP's claim was then that Nadler asserted that the idea that Antifa was ever involved in riots was a myth. You see the spin. You did the same in the Title of the OP. So, I had to correct both him and you because you have a tendency to only see what you're looking for. Nadler in your OP was specifically refering to Antifa with respect to Portland.

    Wake up.
    It would help a lot if you would use actual quotes, because, quite honestly, I don't trust a single thing you say.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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  8. #106
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    The founders of this country had some brains; they knew what they wanted - and they (and their descendants) built the most powerful country in the world.

    The rabble today can't formulate a single thought, much less get organized and build a country. So that's a huge difference.
    They're not trying to build a country, they're trying to fix the flaws in this one exactly the way the founders meant for them to do. The founders were flawed human beings, but they weren't stupid.

  9. #107
    tWebber Ronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    They're not trying to build a country, they're trying to fix the flaws in this one exactly the way the founders meant for them to do.
    They aren't doing a very good job of it. It looks like disorganized destruction to me.

    The founders were flawed human beings, but they weren't stupid.
    Yep. And these barbarians are toppling their statues and destroying the neighborhoods they live in. Sheer brilliance.

  10. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  11. #108
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    They're not trying to build a country, they're trying to fix the flaws in this one exactly the way the founders meant for them to do.
    But your buddies aren't trying to fix anything. They're just acting like fools, trying to burn down buildings, spraying hate-speech all over buildings, shooting commercial grade fireworks and mortars at police, causing mayhem and chaos....

    The founders were flawed human beings, but they weren't stupid.
    But, compared to your buddies, they're saints!
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  12. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  13. #109
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    The founders of this country had some brains; they knew what they wanted - and they (and their descendants) built the most powerful country in the world.

    The rabble today can't formulate a single thought, much less get organized and build a country. So that's a huge difference.
    B-but look at the success of CHAZ/CHOP. Um, then again...

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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  15. #110
    tWebber Hypatia_Alexandria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    That's beautimous, but how bout the grievances?
    I had to look that word up. However, irrespective of its beauty or otherwise, you supplied a definition of what constitutes an anarchist and that definition ably fits those mobs of American colonials [and their ringleaders] who incited and engaged in violence and vandalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    The American Revolutions did a fantastic job spelling out their grievances.
    That was drafted over a decade after the initial protests had begun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Please provide such a document for the contemporary anti-American anarchists.
    I may as well ask you for a document outlining the grievances against the Sugar Act, The Stamp Act, the Currency Act, and the Quartering Act [to name just four]. As far as I am aware no such document exists, although I suspect plenty of broadsheets, pamphlets, and newspapers were printed and distributed at the time that contained articles denouncing all of those, as well as various other perceived grievances that were likewise held in the 1760s.

    Having done a little reading on the movement colloquially known under the heading Black Lives Matter [BLM] the Black Lives Matter Global Network (BLMGN) is only one organisation within a larger collection of groups that are contained within the Movement for Black Lives (M4BL), which is a collective term for a coalition that includes dozens of local and national organisations.

    It therefore follows that if you wish to engage in an exchange discussing the historic background to those movements you may want to consider starting a new thread [possibly on another board].

    However, the issue here [as far as I am concerned] is not the substance of the grievances in the eighteenth century or of today; but the perceptions from many of those contributing to these boards towards those who are protesting today.

    My point has been that while those historic grievances [perceived or otherwise] were both, at the time, and today considered justification for rebellion against the lawful government and its officials, including those responsible for upholding the law; the grievances today [again perceived or otherwise] are criticised and condemned by those whom I suspect would laud the actions of their forebears two hundred and fifty years ago which ultimately led to the Declaration.

    Hence while historic protest [and its concomitant violence] is seen today as a means that justified an end [i.e. the establishment of the USA] those who would consider the actions that led to that fact justifiable are today highly critical of their fellow Americans taking very similar actions to those who rampaged, vandalised, and intimidated their fellow colonial subjects [and they all were subjects of the British Crown] in the late 1700s.

    To use a phrase, the shoe is this time on the other foot and many Americans who support the administration and perceive those actions to be nothing more than mindless violence and the behaviours of "anarchists" find that fact distressing. However, that view echoes [no doubt to some extent] the opinions held in the 1700s by government administrators and the lawful government of the colonies and its supporters.

    If this simple fact cannot be recognised by those deploring the actions of the protesters today it suggests a degree of historical amnesia and denial concerning the protests and the violence that broke out in various colonial cities over approximately twelve years, and that eventually culminated in the Declaration of Independence in 1776.
    Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 08-01-2020 at 05:49 AM.
    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

  16. Amen JimL amen'd this post.

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