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Thread: Nadler: Antifa violence is a myth

  1. #141
    tWebber Ronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    You have to define what you understand as lawful. So far you have singularly failed to do so.
    In spite of the fact that I asked you first (since you were the one using the term, not me), I will answer anyway: There is no such thing as a "lawful" government - except one that is determined by those being governed by it. The colonists had no representation in Parliament - so from the colonist's perspective it was not a legitimate government.

  2. #142
    tWebber Hypatia_Alexandria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    In spite of the fact that I asked you first (since you were the one using the term, not me), I will answer anyway: There is no such thing as a "lawful" government - except one that is determined by those being governed by it. The colonists had no representation in Parliament - so from the colonist's perspective it was not a legitimate government.
    I agree that was their perception. However, it was not the perception of the British government. The colonists were not unique in having no representation in Parliament. Most other British subjects had none either given the electoral system in place at that time and the limited entitlement of those eligible to vote.

    However, the colonists had a degree of autonomy.
    Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 08-01-2020 at 05:37 PM.
    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

  3. #143
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    I agree that was their perception. However, it was not the perception of the British government. The colonists were not unique in having no representation in Parliament. Most other British subjects had none either given the electoral system in place at that time and the limited entitlement of those eligible to vote.

    However, the colonists had a degree of autonomy.
    Which they chose to exercise with gusto.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  4. #144
    tWebber Hypatia_Alexandria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Which they chose to exercise with gusto.
    But only for the white property owning classes!
    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

  5. #145
    tWebber Ronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    I agree that was their perception. However, it was not the perception of the British government.
    That doesn't matter. The British government could lay claim to all sorts of distant lands and it wouldn't make them the "lawful" government. In fact, the issue of the Falklands supports my argument. The inhabitants recognize Britain as their government, despite Argentina insisting the real estate belongs to them. So your argument would be that Falkland residents are subjects of the Argentinian government because Argentina has ancient and legitimate claims to the real estate.

    The colonists were not unique in having no representation in Parliament. Most other British subjects had none either given the electoral system in place at that time and the limited entitlement of those eligible to vote.
    That doesn't satisfy claims to a "lawful" government, just because others were cheated of representation as well.

    However, the colonists had a degree of autonomy.
    Interesting. So based on the criteria you're offering here, the Soviet Union was a "lawful" government. The "republics" did not have representation in the Politburo but they had some degree of autonomy. They should have been satisfied with that. So when Stalin had millions of Russians and others killed he was doing so lawfully, since he was the government when he was in charge.

  6. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  7. #146
    tWebber Ronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    I agree that was their perception. However, it was not the perception of the British government...
    I'll back off after this. It may only be semantics, but your use of the word "lawful" riled me. There is no universal body to determine when a government is "lawful" or not. Now, you can say an "established" government or a "recognized" government and I will not protest. But neither determines "lawful."

  8. #147
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    But only for the white property owning classes!
    Another nasty habit we learned from the Brits!
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  9. #148
    tWebber Hypatia_Alexandria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    I'll back off after this. It may only be semantics, but your use of the word "lawful" riled me. There is no universal body to determine when a government is "lawful" or not. Now, you can say an "established" government or a "recognized" government and I will not protest. But neither determines "lawful."
    I see your point, but the fact remains that insofar as the British were concerned in the 1700s they were the lawful government of the colonies. From the early 1600s companies were chartered by the Crown to colonise the American coast. Shareholders in the companies were to provide settlers and capital and control production and trade. However, the government of those colonies was to remain in the hands of the crown, acting through councils.
    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

  10. #149
    tWebber Hypatia_Alexandria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Another nasty habit we learned from the Brits!
    You did not learn it from the Brits, many of those American colonists had antecedents that were British and in various respects still regarded themselves as English gentlemen, albeit resident in the colonies.
    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

  11. #150
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    You did not learn it from the Brits, many of those American colonists had antecedents that were British and in various respects still regarded themselves as English gentlemen, albeit resident in the colonies.
    And, perhaps, you think these "peaceful protesters" who commit arson, looting, rioting and chaos and mayhem over grievances you cannot even identify -- perhaps you see them as "American gentlemen"?
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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