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Are All White People Racist?

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  • #91
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Yup you're right..
    I know I am right!
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
      Or the homosexuals.
      Or the Slavs.

      Or the mentally and physically disabled. They started their murderous policy with them.
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        I have an excellent sense of humour.
        Perhaps, kept at bay by your desire to sound more intelligent?
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
          Charitably, she could be trying to say that people can be socialised into having racist beliefs and perhaps be unaware that they have them. That seems fairly uncontroversial.
          I disagree with your take on her redefining anything, except that she's taking the view of racism that is current with sociologists. However she is in fact making the point you're staking here. It think that's obvious to anyone who reads her without an axe to grind.

          However, she then leaps to the conclusion that she (and presumably all other white people (?)) actually have racist beliefs. I don't think that necessarily follows, but if it does, then it also follows that people of other races (black, asian, european, whatever) are also racist due merely to being socialised in a particular racial group.
          I don't think that's a fair take on her book. Have you read it?

          She says that being socialised to be racist (let's pretend that this is actually what has happened to all white Americans) "...is not really a question of good or bad" and we shouldn't feel guilty about it, as it is merely an accident of birth. OK. So then a white American has no moral need to change or to try to stop being racist. After all, we don't feel a moral obligation to change other things we have been socialised into, such as our choice and use of dining cutlery (some culture use a spoon and fork, some a knife and fork, some chopsticks, etc); or liking to live in a extended family with multiple generations in the same house; or many other things.
          Now I wonder whether you read the entire interview, and not merely the single quote I gave you. Because she very much does say that it everyone's duty to work on those things. You're quibbling a lot about how she replied to a particular question of a journalist in a particular interview. In that interview the journalist asked her how a person could work on it. The point she is making is just that having something to work on doesn't make you 'evil'. In fact the big problem she says is that people have this misconception that a racist is only ever a really, really bad person (And since "I" am not a bad person, I can't be a racist). So we have to get beyond that.

          I mean take this forum. You can't say the F-word or the N-word (I cleared it with Cow Poke that I could write the words like this) here. And in fact swearing and outright blasphemy are policed and disallowed. A lot of people have a tendency to use the F-word, but that doesn't make it bad, but I don't think its uncontroversial to say that the forum mods here would wish they wouldn't, and think they ought to work on that.

          Her whole point is that when something problematic is pointed out, a racist equivalent of an F-word, and this is pointed out. Or even when 'whiteness' is discussed as a thing, white people get unreasonably defensive. And this act is what is called white fragility.

          She presumably doesn't advocate for people to change other habits, or beliefs, or lifestyles that they have been socialised into.
          Is this guesswork about her?

          If - as she says - she has no reason to feel guilty about her incipient racism, then she has no strong reason to change it, except insofar as she feels the need to yield to whatever the current social mores are. She's most welcome to change whatever she wants about herself, but she has given no reason for others to change, and has in fact destroyed the basis of any moral reason for such change.
          I advice you read the full interview. She very explicitly says that she doesn't feel guilty since she's doing what she can, and that's the mentality people should have.

          I wonder what she thinks about groups such as mainland Chinese, who are raised to be thoroughly racist in both thought and practice, and see it as a virtue rather than a fault. Ditto to a lesser degree many other Asian people groups (Japanese, Koreans, Thais, etc etc) who despise some other Asian people groups and/or non-Asians, and don't really see it as an issue. And I suspect that some African Americans are socialised in to being racist toward other people groups (see the racial divides prevalent in American prisons for an example).
          I would be interested in that as well, but I don't see how relevant it is to her thesis.

          But wait... it gets worse still. Her belief that 'racism is something white people have been socialised into, without knowing it'; is itself merely something that SHE has been socialised into. So it's neither good or bad (like other beliefs we have been socialised into, according to her) and thus we have no moral obligation to accept it. As it happens, it's not a belief I have been socialised into - just as I have not been socialised to be racist, so I'm fine. I can safely ignore her as she works out her personal hangups, as long as she doesn't impinge on me living my life - which she is trying to do by writing a book to promote some unimportant beliefs she was socialised into.
          I don't think you're being fair to her here, what I've read of her doesn't suggest this at all.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Who you disagree with
            Yup.

            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            and seek to dehumanize because of it.
            Nope. Your obsession with a single insult doesn't represent any goal-seeking on my part.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              Like I said, that's your problem, not mine.

              I actually lived in the inner city of Newark, New Jersey throughout junior high and high school where people with my skin color were a tiny minority, and it was really no big deal to me. I used to walk to work, and one day, a black guy on the corner stopped me and said, "What's it like to be a white boy like you living in the ghetto with all the [n-words]?" I shrugged my shoulders and said, "It doesn't bother me." He laughed, said a few expletives, and then resumed his conversation with his companion.

              I honestly can't imagine what it's like to harbor racist tendencies to the point that you have to actively guard against them, but good for you that you're working to overcome your own racism. Next step is to overcome your liberalism, and then perhaps you can be a productive member of civil society.
              It's just amusing to me to see liberals spend so much time on racism, inclusiveness, diversity --- and they have an old white dude running for POTUS.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                It's just amusing to me to see liberals spend so much time on racism, inclusiveness, diversity --- and they have an old white dude running for POTUS.
                You think that isn't considered a problem in feminist circles? I know a lot of my US liberals friends are tired with the party leadership. Also liberals are as diverse as conservatives. I mean conservatives run the gammot from a right of center Reaganite, all the way to an Alt-Right Ethno-Nationalist.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by LeaC View Post
                  Completely agree with you. There's a great deal of race-obsession from the left that I find extremely disturbing and much of it unsubtle in its racism. The claims of White Fragility or All White People Are Racist are based on a foundation that those who are "oppressed" - always black, on the subject of race - can never do anything wrong or be in any way responsible for their own failings. It denies full humanity from anyone non-white, ironically. They are helpless to change their own circumstances, and we, the enlightened, graciously woke whites, are only to listen silently to their wisdom without question and do as requested. It's insultingly racist to both sides.
                  Diangelo is definitely on the self-deprecation cult level of Whateverman. But at least Diangelo is making a lot of money being a bizarre kook. So you could say she's actually just being a grifter or a con artist, whereas there's nothing really to justify the bizarreness of Whateverman. Though it's always possible he's just trolling as an internet sport.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                    You think that isn't considered a problem in feminist circles?
                    I would be surprised if it were not.

                    I know a lot of my US liberals friends are tired with the party leadership. Also liberals are as diverse as conservatives. I mean conservatives run the gammot from a right of center Reaganite, all the way to an Alt-Right Ethno-Nationalist.
                    Where do you put me?
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      It's just amusing to me to see liberals spend so much time on racism, inclusiveness, diversity --- and they have an old white dude running for POTUS.
                      An old white, creepy female groper (and possible rapist), pro segregationist! It's twilight zone level.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        I would be surprised if it were not.
                        Yeah.

                        Where do you put me?
                        Good old fashioned, no nonsense, Hank Hill, Reaganite conservative.

                        Now I'm reminded of King of the Hill and all the excellent conservative zingers it had.

                        HANK: Mr. Harrington, you seem to have a few gaps here in your work history.
                        MR. HARRINGTON: Well, '33 to '45, F.D.R. was in the White House, so I was on the welfare. And in the '60s, you had Kennedy and L.B.J., so I was on the welfare. And then from '77 to '81, Jimmy Carter, so I was on the welfare.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Perhaps, kept at bay by your desire to sound more intelligent?
                          How do I "sound more intelligent"? Or is this your attempt to patronise?
                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            What the hell is your point? Do you even know? I corrected Whatever then you had to stick your big nose in with information that was not relevant to that discussion.
                            Ah and the ad hominem rears its head yet again.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                              Yeah.



                              Good old fashioned, no nonsense, Hank Hill, Reaganite conservative.

                              Now I'm reminded of King of the Hill and all the excellent conservative zingers it had.

                              HANK: Mr. Harrington, you seem to have a few gaps here in your work history.
                              MR. HARRINGTON: Well, '33 to '45, F.D.R. was in the White House, so I was on the welfare. And in the '60s, you had Kennedy and L.B.J., so I was on the welfare. And then from '77 to '81, Jimmy Carter, so I was on the welfare.

                              Good old Hank. An island of normalcy in a sea of oddball characters. That is if you ignore his obsession with propane and love of mowing the lawn.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                                Ah and the ad hominem rears its head yet again.
                                Are daft? Everything I said was fact.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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