Originally posted by rogue06
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Are All White People Racist?
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostOr the homosexuals.
Or the mentally and physically disabled. They started their murderous policy with them."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostI have an excellent sense of humour.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by MaxVel View PostCharitably, she could be trying to say that people can be socialised into having racist beliefs and perhaps be unaware that they have them. That seems fairly uncontroversial.
However, she then leaps to the conclusion that she (and presumably all other white people (?)) actually have racist beliefs. I don't think that necessarily follows, but if it does, then it also follows that people of other races (black, asian, european, whatever) are also racist due merely to being socialised in a particular racial group.
She says that being socialised to be racist (let's pretend that this is actually what has happened to all white Americans) "...is not really a question of good or bad" and we shouldn't feel guilty about it, as it is merely an accident of birth. OK. So then a white American has no moral need to change or to try to stop being racist. After all, we don't feel a moral obligation to change other things we have been socialised into, such as our choice and use of dining cutlery (some culture use a spoon and fork, some a knife and fork, some chopsticks, etc); or liking to live in a extended family with multiple generations in the same house; or many other things.
I mean take this forum. You can't say the F-word or the N-word (I cleared it with Cow Poke that I could write the words like this) here. And in fact swearing and outright blasphemy are policed and disallowed. A lot of people have a tendency to use the F-word, but that doesn't make it bad, but I don't think its uncontroversial to say that the forum mods here would wish they wouldn't, and think they ought to work on that.
Her whole point is that when something problematic is pointed out, a racist equivalent of an F-word, and this is pointed out. Or even when 'whiteness' is discussed as a thing, white people get unreasonably defensive. And this act is what is called white fragility.
She presumably doesn't advocate for people to change other habits, or beliefs, or lifestyles that they have been socialised into.
If - as she says - she has no reason to feel guilty about her incipient racism, then she has no strong reason to change it, except insofar as she feels the need to yield to whatever the current social mores are. She's most welcome to change whatever she wants about herself, but she has given no reason for others to change, and has in fact destroyed the basis of any moral reason for such change.
I wonder what she thinks about groups such as mainland Chinese, who are raised to be thoroughly racist in both thought and practice, and see it as a virtue rather than a fault. Ditto to a lesser degree many other Asian people groups (Japanese, Koreans, Thais, etc etc) who despise some other Asian people groups and/or non-Asians, and don't really see it as an issue. And I suspect that some African Americans are socialised in to being racist toward other people groups (see the racial divides prevalent in American prisons for an example).
But wait... it gets worse still. Her belief that 'racism is something white people have been socialised into, without knowing it'; is itself merely something that SHE has been socialised into. So it's neither good or bad (like other beliefs we have been socialised into, according to her) and thus we have no moral obligation to accept it. As it happens, it's not a belief I have been socialised into - just as I have not been socialised to be racist, so I'm fine. I can safely ignore her as she works out her personal hangups, as long as she doesn't impinge on me living my life - which she is trying to do by writing a book to promote some unimportant beliefs she was socialised into.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostLike I said, that's your problem, not mine.
I actually lived in the inner city of Newark, New Jersey throughout junior high and high school where people with my skin color were a tiny minority, and it was really no big deal to me. I used to walk to work, and one day, a black guy on the corner stopped me and said, "What's it like to be a white boy like you living in the ghetto with all the [n-words]?" I shrugged my shoulders and said, "It doesn't bother me." He laughed, said a few expletives, and then resumed his conversation with his companion.
I honestly can't imagine what it's like to harbor racist tendencies to the point that you have to actively guard against them, but good for you that you're working to overcome your own racism. Next step is to overcome your liberalism, and then perhaps you can be a productive member of civil society.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIt's just amusing to me to see liberals spend so much time on racism, inclusiveness, diversity --- and they have an old white dude running for POTUS.
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Originally posted by LeaC View PostCompletely agree with you. There's a great deal of race-obsession from the left that I find extremely disturbing and much of it unsubtle in its racism. The claims of White Fragility or All White People Are Racist are based on a foundation that those who are "oppressed" - always black, on the subject of race - can never do anything wrong or be in any way responsible for their own failings. It denies full humanity from anyone non-white, ironically. They are helpless to change their own circumstances, and we, the enlightened, graciously woke whites, are only to listen silently to their wisdom without question and do as requested. It's insultingly racist to both sides.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostYou think that isn't considered a problem in feminist circles?
I know a lot of my US liberals friends are tired with the party leadership. Also liberals are as diverse as conservatives. I mean conservatives run the gammot from a right of center Reaganite, all the way to an Alt-Right Ethno-Nationalist.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIt's just amusing to me to see liberals spend so much time on racism, inclusiveness, diversity --- and they have an old white dude running for POTUS.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI would be surprised if it were not.
Where do you put me?
Now I'm reminded of King of the Hill and all the excellent conservative zingers it had.
HANK: Mr. Harrington, you seem to have a few gaps here in your work history.
MR. HARRINGTON: Well, '33 to '45, F.D.R. was in the White House, so I was on the welfare. And in the '60s, you had Kennedy and L.B.J., so I was on the welfare. And then from '77 to '81, Jimmy Carter, so I was on the welfare.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostPerhaps, kept at bay by your desire to sound more intelligent?"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by seer View PostWhat the hell is your point? Do you even know? I corrected Whatever then you had to stick your big nose in with information that was not relevant to that discussion."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostYeah.
Good old fashioned, no nonsense, Hank Hill, Reaganite conservative.
Now I'm reminded of King of the Hill and all the excellent conservative zingers it had.
HANK: Mr. Harrington, you seem to have a few gaps here in your work history.
MR. HARRINGTON: Well, '33 to '45, F.D.R. was in the White House, so I was on the welfare. And in the '60s, you had Kennedy and L.B.J., so I was on the welfare. And then from '77 to '81, Jimmy Carter, so I was on the welfare.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostAh and the ad hominem rears its head yet again.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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