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The Biblical Big Bang

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  • The Biblical Big Bang

    From Reasons to Believe...

    Source: Reasons to Believe

    The Hebrew verb translated “created” in Isaiah 42:5 is bara’ which has as its primary definition “bringing into existence something new, something that did not exist before.”7 The proclamation that God created (bara’) the entirety of the heavens is stated seven times in the Old Testament. (Genesis 1:1; 2:3; 2:4; Psalm 148:5; Isaiah 40:26; 42:5; 45:18). This principle of transcendent creation is made more explicit by passages like Hebrews 11:3 which states that the universe that we humans can measure and detect was made out of that which we cannot measure or detect.

    ...

    The characteristic of the universe stated more frequently than any other in the Bible is its being “stretched out.” Five different Bible authors pen such a statement in eleven different verses: Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 40:22; 42:5; 44:24; 45:12; 48:13; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12; 51:15; and Zechariah 12:1.

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    So the universe was created from nothing, and is continually expanding, is the Biblical view.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  • #2
    Much of the initial opposition to the Big Bang theory from some scientists was that it too closely resembled what is written in Genesis.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      Heard there was a lot of electromagnetic radiation going on too! The cosmic microwave background radiation is light from the big bang, right? And only God knows what happened in the first planck time!
      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
        From Reasons to Believe...

        Source: Reasons to Believe

        The Hebrew verb translated “created” in Isaiah 42:5 is bara’ which has as its primary definition “bringing into existence something new, something that did not exist before.”7 The proclamation that God created (bara’) the entirety of the heavens is stated seven times in the Old Testament. (Genesis 1:1; 2:3; 2:4; Psalm 148:5; Isaiah 40:26; 42:5; 45:18). This principle of transcendent creation is made more explicit by passages like Hebrews 11:3 which states that the universe that we humans can measure and detect was made out of that which we cannot measure or detect.

        ...

        The characteristic of the universe stated more frequently than any other in the Bible is its being “stretched out.” Five different Bible authors pen such a statement in eleven different verses: Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 40:22; 42:5; 44:24; 45:12; 48:13; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12; 51:15; and Zechariah 12:1.

        Source

        © Copyright Original Source



        So the universe was created from nothing, and is continually expanding, is the Biblical view.
        And just as scientists reserve the right to change their minds about the big bang as new evidence comes to light, bible believers reserve the right to reinterpret the text as necessary.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
          From Reasons to Believe...

          Source: Reasons to Believe

          The Hebrew verb translated “created” in Isaiah 42:5 is bara’ which has as its primary definition “bringing into existence something new, something that did not exist before.”7 The proclamation that God created (bara’) the entirety of the heavens is stated seven times in the Old Testament. (Genesis 1:1; 2:3; 2:4; Psalm 148:5; Isaiah 40:26; 42:5; 45:18). This principle of transcendent creation is made more explicit by passages like Hebrews 11:3 which states that the universe that we humans can measure and detect was made out of that which we cannot measure or detect.

          ...

          The characteristic of the universe stated more frequently than any other in the Bible is its being “stretched out.” Five different Bible authors pen such a statement in eleven different verses: Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 40:22; 42:5; 44:24; 45:12; 48:13; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12; 51:15; and Zechariah 12:1.

          Source

          © Copyright Original Source



          So the universe was created from nothing, and is continually expanding, is the Biblical view.

          Blessings,
          Lee
          But does bara' necessarily imply creation ex nihil? If yes, why this is so?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Seeker View Post
            But does bara' necessarily imply creation ex nihil? If yes, why this is so?
            It cannot imply ex nihilo because it does not start with nothing. It starts with God, so unless God is nothing, then it cannot be creation ex nihilo. At best is can be creation from nothing plus God.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rossum View Post
              It cannot imply ex nihilo because it does not start with nothing. It starts with God, so unless God is nothing, then it cannot be creation ex nihilo. At best is can be creation from nothing plus God.
              Agreed, while not forgetting the contradictory account found in Genesis 2!

              However, Genesis 1 makes it clear that the original state of the universe is a watery chaos and hence not creation ex nihilo.
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                Genesis 1 makes it clear that the original state of the universe is a watery chaos and hence not creation ex nihilo.
                Actually, "the heavens and the earth" is the Hebrew way to say "the universe". So the earth, and the state of it being a watery chaos, is included in "in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

                Originally posted by Seeker
                But does bara' necessarily imply creation ex nihil? If yes, why this is so?
                It often means creation from nothing, but not always. The clearest verse about creation from nothing is Hebrews 11:3:

                "By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible." (Heb. 11:3)

                Originally posted by Rossum
                At best is can be creation from nothing plus God.
                Well, yes, it is assumed that God is eternally existent.

                Blessings,
                Lee
                "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                  Actually, "the heavens and the earth" is the Hebrew way to say "the universe". So the earth, and the state of it being a watery chaos, is included in "in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."
                  But not ex nihilo.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rossum View Post
                    It cannot imply ex nihilo because it does not start with nothing. It starts with God, so unless God is nothing, then it cannot be creation ex nihilo. At best is can be creation from nothing plus God.
                    Unless god created the universe out of himself, then he created it ex nihilo.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      Unless god created the universe out of himself, then he created it ex nihilo.
                      . . . or the nature of all worlds including our world have allways existed as God's Creation reflecting the atributes of God. I do believe that the concept of 'Creation exnilo' is a later interpretation of the scripture, and Biblically it was not the beginning of everything.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        . . . or the nature of all worlds including our world have allways existed as God's Creation reflecting the atributes of God. I do believe that the concept of 'Creation exnilo' is a later interpretation of the scripture, and Biblically it was not the beginning of everything.
                        Yes, I'm familiar with your idea shunya, but if you mean that the substance of the natural world existed eternally alongside of the substance of the supernatural then what you're suggesting amounts to there being two distinct eternal substances. The one can't be the reflection of the other because they are distinct in nature. You might as well say there are two gods.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                          But not ex nihilo.
                          I think God used the ideas and concepts that people were familiar with in order to make it clear that God created everything including numerous things that people worshiped as gods rather than try to convey a science lesson.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            I think God used the ideas and concepts that people were familiar with in order to make it clear that God created everything including numerous things that people worshiped as gods rather than try to convey a science lesson.
                            You are correct of course:

                            Why the Bible is not a science textbook:

                            FADE IN:

                            SCENE: Inside a tent in the desert. There is a small table and chair in the middle of the tent. Some baggage is stacked at the back.

                            Characters: GOD invisible and omnipresent. MOSES offstage.

                            MOSES enters the tent.

                            MOSES: "What a day! If I ever see another grain of sand I swear that I am goi..."

                            GOD: "Moses!"

                            MOSES: (surprised) "Yes Lord!"

                            GOD: "Get pen, ink and papyrus."

                            MOSES goes to the baggage and fetches a pen, ink and papyrus. He takes them to the table and sits down.

                            GOD: "Begin writing."

                            MOSES: "Yes Lord."

                            GOD: "In the beginning I created a quantum fluctuation at the hyper-sub-quark level ..."

                            MOSES: (interrupting) "Sorry Lord. Was that spelled K-W-A-H-K?"

                            GOD: "Hmmm. I foresee a problem. Humans will not discover hyper-sub-quarks for another 8,726 years three months and sixteen days. Perhaps something less cosmological might work better. Moses, begin a new sheet of papyrus."

                            MOSES picks up a new piece of papyrus and prepares to write.

                            GOD: "In the beginning I created deoxyribonucleic acid ..."

                            MOSES: (interrupting) "Sorry Lord, but could you spell that please?"

                            GOD: "Oy vey! Why did I make these people so dumb?"

                            GOD touches a finger to Moses' forehead.

                            MOSES: "Ah, now I understand. Thank you for giving me all that knowledge Lord. Unfortunately I see a problem. If I write 'deoxyribonucleic acid' then none of the other Israelites will know what the he... heck I have written about unless you touch all their foreheads as well."

                            GOD: "Hmmm. A good point Moses. Let me think about it for a few thousand years."

                            MOSES: "But what do I do while I am waiting?"

                            GOD: "Never mind, I have finished thinking."

                            MOSES: "That was never thousands of years."

                            GOD: (angrily) "Do you doubt Me! Time is Mine to command. It is subject to Me, not Me to it."

                            MOSES: (humbly) "Sorry Lord."

                            GOD: "Start a new piece of papyrus."

                            MOSES picks up a new piece of papyrus and prepares to write.

                            GOD: "In the beginning I created the heavens and the earth ..."

                            FADE OUT:

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rossum View Post
                              You are correct of course:

                              Why the Bible is not a science textbook:

                              FADE IN:

                              SCENE: Inside a tent in the desert. There is a small table and chair in the middle of the tent. Some baggage is stacked at the back.

                              Characters: GOD invisible and omnipresent. MOSES offstage.

                              MOSES enters the tent.

                              MOSES: "What a day! If I ever see another grain of sand I swear that I am goi..."

                              GOD: "Moses!"

                              MOSES: (surprised) "Yes Lord!"

                              GOD: "Get pen, ink and papyrus."

                              MOSES goes to the baggage and fetches a pen, ink and papyrus. He takes them to the table and sits down.

                              GOD: "Begin writing."

                              MOSES: "Yes Lord."

                              GOD: "In the beginning I created a quantum fluctuation at the hyper-sub-quark level ..."

                              MOSES: (interrupting) "Sorry Lord. Was that spelled K-W-A-H-K?"

                              GOD: "Hmmm. I foresee a problem. Humans will not discover hyper-sub-quarks for another 8,726 years three months and sixteen days. Perhaps something less cosmological might work better. Moses, begin a new sheet of papyrus."

                              MOSES picks up a new piece of papyrus and prepares to write.

                              GOD: "In the beginning I created deoxyribonucleic acid ..."

                              MOSES: (interrupting) "Sorry Lord, but could you spell that please?"

                              GOD: "Oy vey! Why did I make these people so dumb?"

                              GOD touches a finger to Moses' forehead.

                              MOSES: "Ah, now I understand. Thank you for giving me all that knowledge Lord. Unfortunately I see a problem. If I write 'deoxyribonucleic acid' then none of the other Israelites will know what the he... heck I have written about unless you touch all their foreheads as well."

                              GOD: "Hmmm. A good point Moses. Let me think about it for a few thousand years."

                              MOSES: "But what do I do while I am waiting?"

                              GOD: "Never mind, I have finished thinking."

                              MOSES: "That was never thousands of years."

                              GOD: (angrily) "Do you doubt Me! Time is Mine to command. It is subject to Me, not Me to it."

                              MOSES: (humbly) "Sorry Lord."

                              GOD: "Start a new piece of papyrus."

                              MOSES picks up a new piece of papyrus and prepares to write.

                              GOD: "In the beginning I created the heavens and the earth ..."

                              FADE OUT:

                              Good to see you around rossum.

                              Those who demand that God should have included science lessons in his theological discussion really need to explain exactly what level of science should have been included. I mean should it be what we understand today, right now, much of which will likely be ridiculed as grossly wrong or hopelessly simplistic in a couple centuries? Or maybe He should have used the level of scientific understanding in Galileo's time. Or maybe Darwin's?

                              Of course you have the same problem.

                              And if takes hundreds of thousands of years for us to discover that He was right, wouldn't that have caused countless folks to turn away since statements meant to be a science lesson would have been rejected as contradicting reality as they then understood it.

                              So maybe, instead of confusing people with stuff that had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the points He was expressing, He simply stuck with what people at the time it was written could comprehend and count on future generations being able to grasp that this wasn't a science lesson.

                              It's sort of like using one of Aesop's Fables to make an ethical point understanding that people would realize that the various animals in the story weren't describing a historical occurrence.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment

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