Originally posted by rogue06
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The Biblical Big Bang
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostBut not ex nihilo.
"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible." (Heb. 11:3)
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostAnd the clearest verse about creation from nothing is Hebrews 11:3:
"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible." (Heb. 11:3)
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYes, I'm familiar with your idea shunya, but if you mean that the substance of the natural world existed eternally alongside of the substance of the supernatural then what you're suggesting amounts to there being two distinct eternal substances. The one can't be the reflection of the other because they are distinct in nature. You might as well say there are two gods.Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-05-2020, 07:45 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by rossum View PostSo, it was not from "nothing" but from nothing and God. If God were not already present then there would still be nothing.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostMuch of the initial opposition to the Big Bang theory from some scientists was that it too closely resembled what is written in Genesis.
Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-05-2020, 07:38 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by rossum View PostSo, it was not from "nothing" but from nothing and God. If God were not already present then there would still be nothing.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostOf course what I propose may be rejected because of the lack of objective evidence, but is a better option than the culture bound anthoporpnic God with hands on CReation from absolutely nothing. There may or may not be two eternal substances, but to me that's ok. Attributes of God are not necessarily distinctly physical. For example the Laws of Natureare reflected in the physical existence as attributes of God, but in and of themselves are not physical.
The actual fundamental nature of our physical existence is grounded in the Quantum nothingness, which alone borders on non-physical. Reflecting the attribute of God does not translate to God being physical.
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[QUOTE=JimL;770933]I don't understand. What attributes are you talking about with respect to god and nature? And why would the laws of nature be the attributes of non nature? I God exists God is God and doesnot fit in any human synario. I just offered an alternative religious view that does fit an infinite eternal physical existence reflecting the attibutes of God.
Not nothingness. Nothing comes from nothing.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI God exists God is God and doesnot fit in any human synario.
I just offered an alternative religious view that does fit an infinite eternal physical existence reflecting the attibutes of God.
All our physcial existence arises from Quantum Nothingness. Look it up.Last edited by JimL; 08-05-2020, 10:35 PM.
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostBut creation ex nihilo implies a Creator! It just means God did not create using pre-existing matter or energy.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThat's not necessarily true. Even you apply to god human attributes. But even if so, even if god does not fit any human scenario, that's no reason to make up non human scenarios.
Well okay, that's an idea, but I just don't think the universe being a reflection of gods attributes makes any sense from the human perspective. I'm not even quite sure what you mean by that exactly.
What is a quantum fluctuation, shunya? It isn't "nothing" fluctuating.
Actually, this thread should be in apoogetics, because science is not a 'reason to believe.'Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-06-2020, 06:03 AM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by rossum View PostYou are correct of course:
Why the Bible is not a science textbook:
FADE IN:
SCENE: Inside a tent in the desert. There is a small table and chair in the middle of the tent. Some baggage is stacked at the back.
Characters: GOD invisible and omnipresent. MOSES offstage.
MOSES enters the tent.
MOSES: "What a day! If I ever see another grain of sand I swear that I am goi..."
GOD: "Moses!"
MOSES: (surprised) "Yes Lord!"
GOD: "Get pen, ink and papyrus."
MOSES goes to the baggage and fetches a pen, ink and papyrus. He takes them to the table and sits down.
GOD: "Begin writing."
MOSES: "Yes Lord."
GOD: "In the beginning I created a quantum fluctuation at the hyper-sub-quark level ..."
MOSES: (interrupting) "Sorry Lord. Was that spelled K-W-A-H-K?"
GOD: "Hmmm. I foresee a problem. Humans will not discover hyper-sub-quarks for another 8,726 years three months and sixteen days. Perhaps something less cosmological might work better. Moses, begin a new sheet of papyrus."
MOSES picks up a new piece of papyrus and prepares to write.
GOD: "In the beginning I created deoxyribonucleic acid ..."
MOSES: (interrupting) "Sorry Lord, but could you spell that please?"
GOD: "Oy vey! Why did I make these people so dumb?"
GOD touches a finger to Moses' forehead.
MOSES: "Ah, now I understand. Thank you for giving me all that knowledge Lord. Unfortunately I see a problem. If I write 'deoxyribonucleic acid' then none of the other Israelites will know what the he... heck I have written about unless you touch all their foreheads as well."
GOD: "Hmmm. A good point Moses. Let me think about it for a few thousand years."
MOSES: "But what do I do while I am waiting?"
GOD: "Never mind, I have finished thinking."
MOSES: "That was never thousands of years."
GOD: (angrily) "Do you doubt Me! Time is Mine to command. It is subject to Me, not Me to it."
MOSES: (humbly) "Sorry Lord."
GOD: "Start a new piece of papyrus."
MOSES picks up a new piece of papyrus and prepares to write.
GOD: "In the beginning I created the heavens and the earth ..."
FADE OUT:
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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