More evidence BLM narrative is false

[seanD]

Gee, who would have guessed? And don't try and say BLM advocates aren't pushing for this because they are. What's even more disturbing is you have mayors and city council folks actually pursing these ideas (and I believe in some cities they've actually cut police budgets).

Defund police is a complete and total sham. People of color don't want to defund the police. Logically it makes NO sense, and it isn't collectively what the people want. It's primarily an MSM, white liberal, and most likely upper class black narrative. So if it's not what the people want based on polling data, God only knows why they're pushing it. I can't explain it, maybe some of you can.

80% of black folks either want the same amount of police presence in their communities or want more. Percentage is almost the same for Hispanics.


source

[whag]

Gee, who would have guessed? And don't try and say BLM advocates aren't pushing for this because they are. What's even more disturbing is you have mayors and city council folks actually pursing these ideas (and I believe in some cities they've actually cut police budgets).

Defund police is a complete and total sham. People of color don't want to defund the police. Logically it makes NO sense, and it isn't collectively what the people want. It's primarily an MSM, white liberal, and most likely upper class black narrative. So if it's not what the people want based on polling data, God only knows why they're pushing it. I can't explain it, maybe some of you can.

80% of black folks either want the same amount of police presence in their communities or want more. Percentage is almost the same for Hispanics.


source

From article:

"Although Black Americans seem about as comfortable as Americans overall with the amount of police presence where they live, they differ markedly in their perceptions of how their local police might treat them if they were to interact."

Which makes sense given that our local police forced a black driver out of his car for having a broken tail light and illegally tinted windows:

I mean, are the police totally clueless or what? Now there's protests outside of our police department.

[seanD]

From article:

"Although Black Americans seem about as comfortable as Americans overall with the amount of police presence where they live, they differ markedly in their perceptions of how their local police might treat them if they were to interact."

Which makes sense given that our local police forced a black driver out of his car for having a broken tail light and illegally tinted windows:

I mean, are the police totally clueless or what? Now there's protests outside of our police department.

Then the logical solution is police REFORM, which requires MORE funding, not less. Hiring more police so cops aren't stressed and overworked, which requires MORE funding, not less. Special ongoing training sessions and community outreach, which requires MORE funding, not less. Perhaps a more stringent vetting process before cops are hired and closer monitoring during their careers, which requires MORE funding, not less.

[whag]

Then the logical solution is police REFORM, which requires MORE funding, not less. Hiring more police so cops aren't stressed and overworked, which requires MORE funding, not less. Special ongoing training sessions and community outreach, which requires MORE funding, not less. Perhaps a more stringent vetting process before cops are hired and closer monitoring during their careers, which requires MORE funding, not less.

Right, and also don't forget from the article:

"Most Black Americans want the police to spend at least as much time in their area as they currently do, indicating that they value the need for the service that police provide. However, that exposure comes with more trepidation for Black than White or Hispanic Americans about what they might experience in a police encounter. And those harboring the least confidence that they will be treated well, or who have had negative encounters in the past, are much more likely to want the police presence curtailed."

It's the black Americans that have kept this in the public discourse, not the white ones who groused about Kaepernick taking a knee. Without the protests and video of abuses (like the one I published), this issue wouldn't be an American priority. It's actually not a priority at all to the current administration, hence why Trump is viewed as racist.

Here's a good article on the subject (same source):

https://news.gallup.com/poll/315962/...r-changes.aspx

Annotation 2020-08-05 190107.jpg

[seanD]

Right, and also don't forget from the article:

"Most Black Americans want the police to spend at least as much time in their area as they currently do, indicating that they value the need for the service that police provide. However, that exposure comes with more trepidation for Black than White or Hispanic Americans about what they might experience in a police encounter. And those harboring the least confidence that they will be treated well, or who have had negative encounters in the past, are much more likely to want the police presence curtailed."

It's the black Americans that have kept this in the public discourse, not the white ones who groused about Kaepernick taking a knee. Without the protests and video of abuses (like the one I published), this issue wouldn't be an American priority. It's actually not a priority at all to the current administration, hence why Trump is viewed as racist.

Here's a good article on the subject (same source):

https://news.gallup.com/poll/315962/...r-changes.aspx

[ATTACH=CONFIG]47421[/ATTACH]

Personally I have no problem with Kaepernick taking a knee as far as his right to free speech. The problem is that BLM, the organization he was representing, is a lie. BLM came to national prominence based on a lie (how Brown was killed, which was a false narrative), and is still a lie (that racist white cops are indiscriminately killing blacks for no reason, which is a false narrative, or that there's an epidemic of systemic white racism, which is also a false narrative).

"And those harboring the least confidence that they will be treated well, or who have had negative encounters in the past, are much more likely to want the police presence curtailed."

I wonder why that is? Could it be the criminals that want police curtailed? The 19% of blacks that want less police? Seems pretty logical.

So why do you think white mayors and city council folks are actually mulling over cutting police budgets, or outrightly banishing police departments all together? This is apparently what BLM wants, not what the majority of minorities want?

[whag]

Personally I have no problem with Kaepernick taking a knee as far as his right to free speech. The problem is that BLM, the organization he was representing, is a lie. BLM came to national prominence based on a lie (how Brown was killed, which was a false narrative), and is still a lie (that racist white cops are indiscriminately killing blacks for no reason, which is a false narrative, or that there's an epidemic of systemic white racism, which is also a false narrative).

The fact that the current administration and its base DID have a problem with kneeling is the problem.

You say “false narrative” a lot. No one said cops are killing blacks indiscriminately. They’re saying there’s a problem with overreaction and escalation. I posted a video of that behavior that took place in my city recently that shouldn’t require more funding or training. Just don’t escalate situations that needn’t be escalated. You really want more money for that?

I wonder why that is? Could it be the criminals that want police curtailed? The 19% of blacks that want less police? Seems pretty logical.

I’m not a criminal, and I think there’s too much police presence in my area. That video I posted is proof of needless policing.

So why do you think white mayors and city council folks are actually mulling over cutting police budgets, or outrightly banishing police departments all together? This is apparently what BLM wants, not what the majority of minorities want?

Yes, it couldn’t possibly be that police organizations need to examine their budgets and priorities. The madness of broken taillights and illegal window tinting must stop!

[seanD]

The fact that the current administration and its base DID have a problem with kneeling is the problem.

You say “false narrative” a lot. No one said cops are killing blacks indiscriminately. They’re saying there’s a problem with overreaction and escalation. I posted a video of that behavior that took place in my city recently that shouldn’t require more funding or training. Just don’t escalate situations that needn’t be escalated. You really want more money for that?




I’m not a criminal, and I think there’s too much police presence in my area. That video I posted is proof of needless policing.



Yes, it couldn’t possibly be that police organizations need to examine their budgets and priorities. The madness of broken taillights and illegal window tinting must stop!

I don't even know why you bring up the issue of kneeling. If it was based on why he was kneeling, I told you my opinion about why I object to it. Other than that, it isn't really the topic. You're not a criminal, and I would guess most of that majority that want the police presence or more of it are not criminals. My point was that it's probably the criminals that want less police presence. You're just an oddball I guess. And you didn't answer the question, so I'll ask it again...

So why do you think white mayors and city council folks are actually mulling over cutting police budgets, or outrightly banishing police departments all together? This is apparently what BLM wants, not what the majority of minorities want?

They're not all arguing "prioritizing." The ones I was referring to are proposing cutting or abolishing, which is giving in to the whims of what BLM wants. Just looking for opinions on that. It seems pretty insane. If you don't want to answer it, that's cool, but don't try and evade it by moving the goalposts.

[Cow Poke]

[whag]

I don't even know why you bring up the issue of kneeling.

Because kneeling pertains to BLM and the police reform discussion AND because the overwhelmingly white overreaction to a peaceful protest says a lot about whether police brutality was ever a priority before the current chaos. Obviously, it wasn't until you got spooked. Now, suddenly you're "woke" to police brutality, but only in a limited sense (i.e., it's kind of a problem and one that can be fixed with more money).

If it was based on why he was kneeling, I told you my opinion about why I object to it. Other than that, it isn't really the topic.

It's a subtopic and totally relevant given public opinions on the issue. POTUS called Kaepernick a "son of a bitch," which was an unprecedented provocation of a totally minor issue (a quiet protest of a largely ignored problem).

You're not a criminal, and I would guess most of that majority that want the police presence or more of it are not criminals. My point was that it's probably the criminals that want less police presence.

It's offensive to suggest that only criminals would like a reduced police presence. There's nothing "oddball" about it and I even gave you clear evidence of that presence resulting in another needless escalation. The protests that event generated weren't attended only by "criminals" but law-abiding citizens asking why police would botch a simple traffic stop.

You're just an oddball I guess. And you didn't answer the question, so I'll ask it again...

They're not all arguing "prioritizing." The ones I was referring to are proposing cutting or abolishing, which is giving in to the whims of what BLM wants.

Your argument makes no sense. You just cited an article proving black Americans don't support complete abolition of police and will vote accordingly. So what's the problem?

Re: cutting funds, you should worry that black Americans are still worried about "how their local police might treat them if they were to interact with them." THOSE are the voters who might be open to reallocating funds, and people are less worried about when police are so corrupt, even in my town, that they'll force a black man out of his car for a simple traffic stop. I say no funds for new training and fire the idiots who escalate. You're as bad as the liberals wanting to throw more money at a problem that simply requires intelligent, emotionally stable officers to do their jobs and not throw matches on powder keg situations.

Just looking for opinions on that. It seems pretty insane. If you don't want to answer it, that's cool, but don't try and evade it by moving the goalposts.

It's not that insane. You're overreacting, especially in light of the fact that the black voters will vote for sensible policies and against abolition measures. Or do you not trust them to do so?

What's really insane is your claim that ONLY criminals are calling for re-evaluation of what the police do. It's like you haven't even read these articles.

[seanD]

Because kneeling pertains to BLM and the police reform discussion AND because the overwhelmingly white overreaction to a peaceful protest says a lot about whether police brutality was ever a priority before the current chaos. Obviously, it wasn't until you got spooked. Now, suddenly you're "woke" to police brutality, but only in a limited sense (i.e., it's kind of a problem and one that can be fixed with more money).



It's a subtopic and totally relevant given public opinions on the issue. POTUS called Kaepernick a "son of a bitch," which was an unprecedented provocation of a totally minor issue (a quiet protest of a largely ignored problem).



It's offensive to suggest that only criminals would like a reduced police presence. There's nothing "oddball" about it and I even gave you clear evidence of that presence resulting in another needless escalation. The protests that event generated weren't attended only by "criminals" but law-abiding citizens asking why police would botch a simple traffic stop.



Your argument makes no sense. You just cited an article proving black Americans don't support complete abolition of police and will vote accordingly. So what's the problem?

Re: cutting funds, you should worry that black Americans are still worried about "how their local police might treat them if they were to interact with them." THOSE are the voters who might be open to reallocating funds, and people are less worried about when police are so corrupt, even in my town, that they'll force a black man out of his car for a simple traffic stop. I say no funds for new training and fire the idiots who escalate. You're as bad as the liberals wanting to throw more money at a problem that simply requires intelligent, emotionally stable officers to do their jobs and not throw matches on powder keg situations.



It's not that insane. You're overreacting, especially in light of the fact that the black voters will vote for sensible policies and against abolition measures. Or do you not trust them to do so?

What's really insane is your claim that ONLY criminals are calling for re-evaluation of what the police do. It's like you haven't even read these articles.

Can you even have an honest discussion without incessant strawmen and goal post moving? You're almost getting as bad as whateverman.

[whag]

Can you even have an honest discussion without incessant strawmen and goal post moving? You're almost getting as bad as whateverman.

Actually, I addressed each of your points. I also pointed out that black people will vote commensurate with their view on the issue. So what's the problem?

What strawmen and moved goalpost are you talking about then?

[whag]

The Mayor of Compton was pulled over and harassed by no less than 7 police officers during a traffic stop.

She was let go after they realized she was the mayor.

Imagine if she wasn't the mayor. I'm white and don't think I'd ever have to worry about being pulled over and told to get out of my car and put my hands on my vehicle for a minor traffic violation, which she wasn't even guilty of.

Yep, I'm all for police departments being under scrutiny and having to worry about their funds being cut. We don't have to worry about the abolition of the police because, as seanD points out, black voters will vote for sensible policies and politicians:

[seanD]

The Mayor of Compton was pulled over and harassed by no less than 7 police officers during a traffic stop.

She was let go after they realized she was the mayor.

Imagine if she wasn't the mayor. I'm white and don't think I'd ever have to worry about being pulled over and told to get out of my car and put my hands on my vehicle for a minor traffic violation, which she wasn't even guilty of.

Yep, I'm all for police departments being under scrutiny and having to worry about their funds being cut. We don't have to worry about the abolition of the police because, as seanD points out, black voters will vote for sensible policies and politicians:

What Biden supports is irrelevant to the OP. Of course Biden doesn't support defund police (at least now) because he's an old school racist who was part of the very problem BLM is complaining about. Back in Biden's day, when he was enacting actual racist polices, there really WAS systemic racism, and 'ol Biden was at the forefront of it all. Today it's just a myth. Of course, since Biden as a politician is in the business of pandering to blacks for their votes, we'll see how much he bends to the whims of BLM. But it's not about Biden, it's about what BLM and white mayors like De Blasio want and are calling for and what the majority of minorities want. I'm trying to understand why these democrats are calling for polices that are contrary to polling data.

[whag]

I'm trying to understand why these democrats are calling for polices that are contrary to polling data.

No you're not trying to understand that, unless somehow you think two-party system normally has best interests of the country in mind. If this really is a mystery to you, you're naive.

Like I said, if you truly are concerned about police abolition, then don't cite articles talking about the sensible opinions of US black voters who want police presence. Biden, like Trump, will pander to his base, and if his base demands police stay funded, they'll stay funded.

I honestly have no idea what you're going on about when the very article you cited confirm that blacks WHO VOTE want police presence.

[seanD]

No you're not trying to understand that, unless somehow you think two-party system normally has best interests of the country in mind. If this really is a mystery to you, you're naive.

Like I said, if you truly are concerned about police abolition, then don't cite articles talking about the sensible opinions of US black voters who want police presence. Biden, like Trump, will pander to his base, and if his base demands police stay funded, they'll stay funded.

I honestly have no idea what you're going on about when the very article you cited confirm that blacks WHO VOTE want police presence.

I'm not trying to understand that? Okay, then if you don't have an answer and you think that, then go away and let someone answer. Here's the question again...

But it's not about Biden, it's about what BLM and white mayors like De Blasio want and are calling for and what the majority of minorities want. I'm trying to understand why these democrats are calling for polices that are contrary to polling data.