No Knock Warrent vs Castle Doctrine

[Leonhard]

So if I understand Castle Doctrine, if there is an intrusion into your house, then you have the right to self-defense and even to act on split second decisions (like police officers) in making the choice to use potentially lethal action. The No-Knock warrant allows the police to enter an apartment without prior warning, no knock on the door, no ringing of the bell and in the case of Bryonna Taylor apparently even without saying they're police.

There seems to be a significant tension between these two laws.

It seems the police have to enter an area where the occupant has the legal right to shoot them.

I've seen discussions about this coming up after the tragic death of Bryonna Taylor who was shot when the police barged in on a no-knock warrant to arrest her boyfriend.

[seer]

I don't know when these no knock warrants got the green light, I am not a fan. The Bryonna Taylor shooting was a foreseeable result of such warrants.

[NorrinRadd]

I really cannot imagine any justification for no-knock warrants in a country that even pretends to have a regard for civil liberties.

[seer]

I really cannot imagine any justification for no-knock warrants in a country that even pretends to have a regard for civil liberties.

When did all this become legal? I missed that court case.

[Leonhard]

When did all this become legal? I missed that court case.

Most of it seems to be based on a fear that drug dealers will get rid of the evidence before opening the door to face the police.

[Whateverman]

When did all this become legal? I missed that court case.

No court case is needed. Some legislative action, maybe.

[Cow Poke]

I am not a fan of no knock warrants at all.

The ONLY time I could see the need is in the case of the apprehension of a known armed felon, but even those often don't turn out well.
A friend of mine (police officer) was killed in such a raid, and his killer (a known drug/gang member) was no billed in a grand jury because he testified that he thought it was a rival gang attacking the house they were in.

Sadly, there are way too many cases where small children are present in these drug labs and crack houses.

[Roy]

A friend of mine (police officer) was killed in such a raid, and his killer (a known drug/gang member) was no billed in a grand jury because he testified that he thought it was a rival gang attacking the house they were in.

Some would say he was right.

[Cow Poke]

Some would say he was right.

Well, yeah, which is why I said "I am not a fan of no knock warrants at all'".

[Sparko]

I thought they had to announce "police" upon entering?

But then anyone can break into your house and yell, "police" so you won't shoot first and then shoot you instead.

[Cow Poke]

I thought they had to announce "police" upon entering?

[ETA: The following is in reference to the situation where my friend was killed in a no knock raid]

And all the bad guys, in unison, claimed, at the time, nobody yelled "police".
Later, the story changed to "well, yeah, but we had no way of knowing it really WAS the police".

But then anyone can break into your house and yell, "police" so you won't shoot first and then shoot you instead.

And the case in which my friend was killed - that was part of the argument --- "ANYBODY can yell POLICE".

This has the makings of "he clearly identified himself as a police officer" being disallowed as a defense for police action.

[Stoic]

When did all this become legal? I missed that court case.

Wilson v. Arkansas

For now, we leave to the lower courts the task of determining the circumstances under which an unannounced entry is reasonable under the Fourth Amendment. We simply hold that although a search or seizure of a dwelling might be constitutionally defective if police officers enter without prior announcement, law enforcement interests may also establish the reasonableness of an unannounced entry.

The two law enforcement interests given that they left for lower courts to rule on were the safety of the police, and the possibility that evidence would be destroyed.

[Christianbookworm]

I've heard many tragic stories about no knock warrants resulting in innocents getting hurt or killed. And police going to the wrong place and traumatizing the innocent people living there!

[Whateverman]

Wilson v. Arkansas

For now, we leave to the lower courts the task of determining the circumstances under which an unannounced entry is reasonable under the Fourth Amendment. We simply hold that although a search or seizure of a dwelling might be constitutionally defective if police officers enter without prior announcement, law enforcement interests may also establish the reasonableness of an unannounced entry.

The two law enforcement interests given that they left for lower courts to rule on were the safety of the police, and the possibility that evidence would be destroyed.

Wow, kudos. I didn't know there was a relevant court case on this...

[Sparko]

[ETA: The following is in reference to the situation where my friend was killed in a no knock raid]

And all the bad guys, in unison, claimed, at the time, nobody yelled "police".
Later, the story changed to "well, yeah, but we had no way of knowing it really WAS the police".



And the case in which my friend was killed - that was part of the argument --- "ANYBODY can yell POLICE".

This has the makings of "he clearly identified himself as a police officer" being disallowed as a defense for police action.

Generally, if someone breaks into my house I would need to wait to actually SEE who it is before I could shoot them. So if someone came in yelling "Police" and I saw they were wearing a uniform, I would assume they were police and not shoot them. Hopefully they wouldn't just shoot me first and give me a chance to lay down my gun. That's the real scary part for me.