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No Knock Warrent vs Castle Doctrine

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Generally, if someone breaks into my house I would need to wait to actually SEE who it is before I could shoot them. So if someone came in yelling "Police" and I saw they were wearing a uniform, I would assume they were police and not shoot them. Hopefully they wouldn't just shoot me first and give me a chance to lay down my gun. That's the real scary part for me.
    Yes, police call the main entry "the funnel of death", because you can be on the inside anywhere from any angle, and they are coming in that one point of entry. Hopefully, they never have to 'break in', but if they do, their adrenaline is pumping, they are wired for danger, and are hyper-focused on their own safety. It's a recipe for disaster.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Yes, police call the main entry "the funnel of death", because you can be on the inside anywhere from any angle, and they are coming in that one point of entry. Hopefully, they never have to 'break in', but if they do, their adrenaline is pumping, they are wired for danger, and are hyper-focused on their own safety. It's a recipe for disaster.
      This is why "Swatting" is so dangerous both for the police and the occupants.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        This is why "Swatting" is so dangerous both for the police and the occupants.
        EGGzackly!
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          EGGzackly!
          Heard that some jerks responsible for swatting did get caught and sent to prison. Mainly because that case had a fatality involved.
          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            Heard that some jerks responsible for swatting did get caught and sent to prison. Mainly because that case had a fatality involved.
            As they should. But law enforcement agencies need to (and many have) double down on "can we verify that". In many cases, there is no immediate urgency.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #21
              Wow! I don't think any twebbers think that no knock warrants are the best thing ever! Have we found something all twebbers agree on?

              ...

              Really hope that statement doesn't immediately get disproved.
              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                Wow! I don't think any twebbers think that no knock warrants are the best thing ever! Have we found something all twebbers agree on?

                ...

                Really hope that statement doesn't immediately get disproved.
                I don't think it's cut and dry on all cases. Duncan Lemp, who has been made into a martyr because he was killed in a no knock raid, had booby trapped his door to fire a shotgun shell at anybody who entered. That's not the kind of person who needs advance warning.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                  Wow! I don't think any twebbers think that no knock warrants are the best thing ever! Have we found something all twebbers agree on?

                  ...

                  Really hope that statement doesn't immediately get disproved.
                  I expect there are some people who would be opposed to taking any tool away from the police.

                  But maybe they aren't on tweb.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    I don't think it's cut and dry on all cases. Duncan Lemp, who has been made into a martyr because he was killed in a no knock raid, had booby trapped his door to fire a shotgun shell at anybody who entered. That's not the kind of person who needs advance warning.
                    It reminds me of Waco, though, where the police had many opportunities to capture Vernon Wayne Howell, but they did the "compound thing" instead. It was legendary in these parts how freely Howell moved about the community.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                      I expect there are some people who would be opposed to taking any tool away from the police.

                      But maybe they aren't on tweb.
                      Yeah, well, I wouldn't say "take the tool away" - I'd say make it much harder to take out of the toolbox.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        I don't think it's cut and dry on all cases. Duncan Lemp, who has been made into a martyr because he was killed in a no knock raid, had booby trapped his door to fire a shotgun shell at anybody who entered. That's not the kind of person who needs advance warning.
                        Don't think you'd want to go inside that door. Set up a perimeter and starve him out? Don't know if it's okay to lay siege to a bad guy's house. And you'd need to be sure it wasn't the wrong address.
                        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          It reminds me of Waco, though, where the police had many opportunities to capture Vernon Wayne Howell, but they did the "compound thing" instead. It was legendary in these parts how freely Howell moved about the community.
                          IIRC, BATF had been suffering from bad publicity over sexual harassment or something like that and thought a raid would be a great way to draw attention away from it and generate good publicity for the bureau.

                          Boy, were they ever wrong.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Yeah, well, I wouldn't say "take the tool away" - I'd say make it much harder to take out of the toolbox.
                            I wonder what that would involve, since they already need a warrant.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                              I wonder what that would involve, since they already need a warrant.
                              Much more stringent guidelines on the judge or DA issuing the warrant.
                              In many cases, there's a pretty cozy relationship between law enforcement and their favorite prosecutor.
                              (It doesn't take long to figure out which judge or DA will be most likely to grant your warrant request)
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                As they should. But law enforcement agencies need to (and many have) double down on "can we verify that". In many cases, there is no immediate urgency.
                                One thing that needs to change are the phone systems. Right it is faults in the phone system protocols that allow for phone number spoofing. The problem is that its baked so deeply in that it can't be fixed without breaking a lot of systems that rely on those protocols.

                                But I'd personally prefer it be done.

                                Comment

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