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Pastor Defies State Orders...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Good on him!
    Like many churches in the past where tracing and evidence shows they are promoting the spread of COVID-19.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #17
      John MacArthur is also a Calvinist who believes unelected babies go to Hell:

      https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-...lection-part-1

      Comment


      • #18
        “we must obey God rather than men”, says I, a man, who will now instruct you regarding your obedience to God.
        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
        “not all there” - you know who you are

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          The issue is that such a position is anti-science. Which plays strongly into why he is foolishly subjecting his parishioners to unnecessary danger by encouraging them to meet together in a space and a manner that is the most likely to create a super-spreader event.

          Keep in mind that by doing so, he makes that Church a mortal thread to the surrounding community. I do not understand why a Church would want to engage in activity that is a potentially mortal threat to the community around them. That is the exact opposite of what we are called to be. And need I say backlash from that same community is inevitable.

          Church goer: "We really care about you, we really do".

          Community member" "They why are you making us sick and killing us?"
          You obviously know nothing about what MacArthur is doing. He has made it clear that the church is open. They closed the church for 21 weeks starting in March, UNTIL the governor said that churches must remain completely closed indefinitely. He does not tell people to come. He tells them that if they are more comfortable not coming, they will not be judged. GCC has set up space outside for at least 1000 people so that they can social distance if they feel more comfortable doing that, and the service is livestreamed. He tells people to wear masks if they want to.

          And his being Calvinistic and YEC have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with GCC's stand to defy the governor at this point. They are at this point stating that the state has overstepped it's authority, and although they complied at the beginning, they are not obeying man AT THIS POINT.

          Now you and whag need to stop with the YEC crap. It's brought up in every thread that I'm in that is open to non-Christians, by whag. He is absolutely obsessed with it, and with me in particular, and it's getting to be creepy and stalky, and it needs to end now.


          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            Like many churches in the past where tracing and evidence shows they are promoting the spread of COVID-19.
            But are they, shuny? They've been open for 3 weeks now, and there is no indication that the number of covid cases has increased in that time in this church. You are making it up by saying that "evidence shows they are promoting the spread" because there is no proof.

            And by the way, how about the riots? How much covid have they spread that nobody, including you, seems to care about.

            You are all so hypocritical, it's sickening.


            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by whag View Post
              John MacArthur is also a Calvinist who believes unelected babies go to Hell:

              https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-...lection-part-1
              But at least he is against murdering millions of babies every year before they're born. Unlike you.



              Look, all this stuff you are bringing up is simply attacking MacArthur for other things that have nothing to do with the thread topic.


              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                But are they, shuny? They've been open for 3 weeks now, and there is no indication that the number of covid cases has increased in that time in this church. You are making it up by saying that "evidence shows they are promoting the spread" because there is no proof.

                And by the way, how about the riots? How much covid have they spread that nobody, including you, seems to care about.

                You are all so hypocritical, it's sickening.
                I cited many documented cases where church services spread COVID-19, and I can cite more. There is no evidence that open are fatherings significantly contribute to the spread of COVID-19.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                  They've been open for 3 weeks now, and there is no indication that the number of covid cases has increased in that time in this church.
                  Perhaps you can cite the organization responsible for tracking the number of cases at this church...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    So what, the pastor is obviously a shepherd who cares little about the health of his human sheep.
                    No one is forced to come. You know like the protesters...
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by whag View Post
                      John MacArthur is also a Calvinist who believes unelected babies go to Hell:

                      https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-...lection-part-1
                      Where doe he say that on that page? I confess I confess I only skimmed through the sermon, but I did use the browser's search function to look for "infant," "baby," and "babies" and no matches turn up.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                        Perhaps you can cite the organization responsible for tracking the number of cases at this church...
                        shuny needs to cite the organization responsible for tracking the number of cases at this church. He's the one who made the blanket statement.

                        And, how about the rioters? You know, the ones that have been gathering for weeks without social distancing and masks that nobody wants to stop? You know, those ones?


                        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                          You obviously know nothing about what MacArthur is doing. He has made it clear that the church is open. They closed the church for 21 weeks starting in March, UNTIL the governor said that churches must remain completely closed indefinitely. He does not tell people to come. He tells them that if they are more comfortable not coming, they will not be judged. GCC has set up space outside for at least 1000 people so that they can social distance if they feel more comfortable doing that, and the service is livestreamed. He tells people to wear masks if they want to.

                          And his being Calvinistic and YEC have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with GCC's stand to defy the governor at this point. They are at this point stating that the state has overstepped it's authority, and although they complied at the beginning, they are not obeying man AT THIS POINT.

                          Now you and whag need to stop with the YEC crap. It's brought up in every thread that I'm in that is open to non-Christians, by whag. He is absolutely obsessed with it, and with me in particular, and it's getting to be creepy and stalky, and it needs to end now.
                          Whag, you live here. You surely know the majority of our churches cooperated with closing services. It was when the Governor said to keep them closed that we said "Hold on a sec. No."

                          Not only is it constitutionally protected, it is *essential* (intentionally used here) to keep in unity. People are suffering from the lack of contact which aggravates the COVID 19 climate.

                          MY church, at all five locations, are requiring masks, social distancing, AND limitation of 100 at the TWO in-person weekly services we now hold. We're working on outdoor services but the Mojave with the 100-plus degree weather with high hot winds that can go on for DAYS ... she doesn't exactly make it easy. We DO follow the directives...but the general disrespect for our rights aren't sitting well with us.

                          And the Supreme Court betrayed us.
                          Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                            You obviously know nothing about what MacArthur is doing. He has made it clear that the church is open. They closed the church for 21 weeks starting in March, UNTIL the governor said that churches must remain completely closed indefinitely. He does not tell people to come. He tells them that if they are more comfortable not coming, they will not be judged. GCC has set up space outside for at least 1000 people so that they can social distance if they feel more comfortable doing that, and the service is livestreamed. He tells people to wear masks if they want to.

                            And his being Calvinistic and YEC have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with GCC's stand to defy the governor at this point. They are at this point stating that the state has overstepped it's authority, and although they complied at the beginning, they are not obeying man AT THIS POINT.

                            Now you and whag need to stop with the YEC crap. It's brought up in every thread that I'm in that is open to non-Christians, by whag. He is absolutely obsessed with it, and with me in particular, and it's getting to be creepy and stalky, and it needs to end now.
                            There will be plenty of churches that will attempt to reopen in a responsible fashion as time progresses. But by defying the governors orders regarding large gatherings of people in enclosed spaces and engaging in congregational singing to boot is raising the risk for all inside, and all those that they interact with after.


                            https://www.christianitytoday.com/ne...eg-laurie.html

                            Source: above

                            ... On Sunday, most attendees were not wearing masks, social distancing, or avoiding contact, as MacArthur told Carlson, they “didn’t buy the narrative.”

                            The congregation sang “We Gather Together,” ...

                            © Copyright Original Source



                            So this is not simply standing up for their right to congregate, this is creating a place for the virus to spread, a virus that kills as many as 10% of the people it infects that are elderly, and whose average mortality sits around 1 to 2%. This is creating a danger to their community. He is eschewing medical science and risking the lives of his congregants and the people they interact with in their community.

                            You see - IF he was making sure congregant household groups were 6 feet apart, only people wearing masks were allowed to enter, singing* was limited to a soloist at some distance from the congregation or a small group appropriately distanced, THEN he would be protesting an order not to worship. But by violating all that science has to tell us about what needs to be done to limit spread of the virus, he is just being irresponsible, ignorant, and selfish, and disobeying the law for no valid reason. And it will likely carry a cost wrt their capacity to minister the Gospel in their community.


                            Now contrast that irresponsible approach and this:

                            Source: above

                            An hour away in Riverside, California, worshippers at Harvest Christian Fellowship were greeted with cheeky pink and purple signs that said, “Smile with your eyes (and wear a mask)” and “Just leave room for your Bible—and another 5½ feet.” It was the third Sunday that Harvest met in a white tent half the size of a football field to comply with state orders restricting indoor worship. After the first week of meeting under the tent, pastor Greg Laurie said, “Our church loved it,” so Harvest added a second morning service.

                            Yesterday, volunteers scanned attendees’ foreheads with infrared thermometers to take their temperature before they entered the tent, where rows of six chairs were spaced about six feet apart. Masks were required—though, as in many places, not all wore them properly—and signs directed eager worshipers to wave at rather than touch each other.

                            © Copyright Original Source




                            *The ACDA has recommended no choral performances or in person choir practices until a vaccine is ready. Most major opera houses and choral societies are shut down indefinitely. Singing is just about the worst thing you can do wrt spreading the virus in an enclosed space.
                            Last edited by oxmixmudd; 08-10-2020, 06:21 PM.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
                              Whag, you live here. You surely know the majority of our churches cooperated with closing services. It was when the Governor said to keep them closed that we said "Hold on a sec. No."

                              Not only is it constitutionally protected, it is *essential* (intentionally used here) to keep in unity. People are suffering from the lack of contact which aggravates the COVID 19 climate.

                              MY church, at all five locations, are requiring masks, social distancing, AND limitation of 100 at the TWO in-person weekly services we now hold. We're working on outdoor services but the Mojave with the 100-plus degree weather with high hot winds that can go on for DAYS ... she doesn't exactly make it easy. We DO follow the directives...but the general disrespect for our rights aren't sitting well with us.

                              And the Supreme Court betrayed us.
                              And that is a much more reasonable and responsible approach to reopening - and can be seen as a legitimate protest to laws that might be overly aggressive wrt churches.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                                shuny needs to cite the organization responsible for tracking the number of cases at this church. He's the one who made the blanket statement.
                                You're the one who claimed there's no indication of the cases rising at the church in the OP; Shunyadragon has nothing to do with that.

                                So, where are you getting your data from?

                                Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                                And, how about the rioters? You know, the ones that have been gathering for weeks without social distancing and masks that nobody wants to stop? You know, those ones?
                                I see no indication that "nobody wants to stop" the rioting, or the rioters. Riots are bad, and in this case, I can safely assume there will be rioters and peaceful protesters who are going to get infected from them.
                                Last edited by Whateverman; 08-10-2020, 06:36 PM.

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